A Story of Survival, Healing, and Purpose with Kris Marks

A Story of Survival, Healing, and Purpose with Kris Marks

Kristopher Marks: I decided to go to therapy, try it out. And uh, I canceled my first four appointments. I made them, drove there, canceled from the parking lot. Four times? Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Kristopher Marks: I was terrified 'cause nobody knew like what I was Sure. So I finally go in and I meet this guy, his name was Jorge. And he was the first like human I'd really ever told everything to.

And I was crying and he was crying and it was just, it was just pouring out and just heavy and hard. And he kind of looked at me after I'd finished, he said, Kris, he says, do you know what I do the other seven days a week? 'cause he was, he was a therapist who did like pro bono once a week. So it was free.

Yeah. And uh, I said, I have no idea. And he said, I work at the Edmonton Max Prison. And I said, okay. And he says, I've heard stories like similar to yours. From the, the men that I work with every day and they end up with me.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal, and we couldn't agree more.

This is the Business Development Podcast.

Based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. In broadcasting to the world, you'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business,

brought to you by Capital Business Development CapitalBD.ca.

Let's do it. Welcome to the The Business Development Podcast, and now your expert host. Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello. Welcome to episode 324 of the Business Development Podcast, and today it is my absolute pleasure to bring you Kris Marks. Kris is a mental health visionary, keynote speaker, musician, and the powerhouse, CEO behind VIV Mental Health, a certified psychological health and safety advisor.

With the Canadian Mental Health Association, Kris brings an unmatched depth of expertise and lived experience to the conversation of psychological safety, leadership, and mental wellness in high stakes environments. With a 13 year career as a red seal journeyman machinist, and a history of performing on stages across Canada as a professional musician and comedian, Kris defies every stereotype about what it means to work in mental health.

His approach is raw, relatable, and rooted in reality. He's not just educating leaders, he's showing them how to lead with empathy, strength, and authenticity. But what makes Kris truly unforgettable is his story, a survivor of trauma, homelessness, and a suicide attempt. Kris fought his way back and turned that pain into purpose, and today he builds bridges between workplaces, schools, and communities, offering tools that don't just tick boxes, but change lives, whether through his groundbreaking, instrumental health program, powerful keynotes, or leadership training sessions, Kris is transforming how we talk about mental health in Canada.

He is not here to soften the blow. He's here to spark a movement. Kris, it's an honor and a privilege to have you on the show.

Kristopher Marks: Kelly, you're gonna make me blush before my weekend here. Thank you very much. What a pleasure. What a privilege to be here. It's good to see you, my friend.

Kelly Kennedy: It's really good to see you to. Man.

All I can say is that after our first introduction conversation, I think I was left a little bit stunned and in awe for about two hours.

Kristopher Marks: Wow. Well, hopefully we can, we can recreate that today too. Yeah. But, um, thank you for the generous introduction. I really appreciate that.

Kelly Kennedy: No, no. Thank you for the work you're doing.

You know, we talked about it really quickly before the show, but I genuinely think that mental health is the topic of the 2020s. I think when people look back at, you know, one of the biggest impacts on the world during this time, I think it's going to be mental health, front and center, because

Kristopher Marks: I, I agree.

Kelly Kennedy: COVID changed absolutely everything. I think with re, with regards to the way that we show up in the world with, the kindness that we treat people with, the empathy we treat people with. And I kind of think that the people that, that don't make those changes, they're gonna be left in the dust.

Kristopher Marks: Well, I think you nailed it. Like COVID was such a catalyst for, for a shift in mindset, just a shift in, I think pe people's personal values and their priorities. It gave a lot of time to a lot of people to really think about what was important and if we're gonna, if we're gonna find a silver, silver lining from those three years, five years, whatever it was that it was, that, that we're, we're coming at it with like a human-centric approach.

So

Kelly Kennedy: I love, I love that you said human-centric approach. 'cause dude I was talking about it and I was making predictions for 2025. And my prediction was this, I said if 2023 was the year of ai, and it really was.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: And 2024 became so centered around personal branding. Everyone I talked to was talking personal branding.

I made a prediction in November of 2024 that 2025 was gonna be the year of human centric approach. That we've gone so far in this like crazy AI direction that people are just gonna be like needing human to human interaction, human focus. And, and the word I used at that time was human-centric approach.

So I think, I think it's really cool you hit on that.

Kristopher Marks: We are on the same page brother.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, you've had a pretty incredible story. I, you've had a really interesting pivot too, which I find amazing. And we're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs today, and I think they're gonna wanna better understand how you went from, you know, essentially a tradesman machinist.

To an entrepreneur of your own, to a completely different style of entrepreneur as well. You didn't, you didn't start a machine shop. Yeah. You know, you went a completely different direction. And so lead us down the whole story. Take us back to being a kid. Walk us through to today. Who is Kris Marks?

Kristopher Marks: Oh gosh.

Okay. Strap in, strap in.

First of all, I mean to, we'll bring it back full circle, but I think you, you laid the groundwork really well. And then set me up for a couple of surprises on what you said. So, gosh, going back to a kid like I'm, I was just a typical Alberta boy, born and raised in Edmonton.

Kelly Kennedy: Yep.

Kristopher Marks: My mom and dad had me pretty young. I was in the wedding photos, so

Kelly Kennedy: amazing.

Kristopher Marks: Oops. But, um, you know, my parents were, uh, gosh, they were young, but they did the best they could. I, I grew up playing hockey. Uh, my dad was a fantastic hockey player. He was my hockey coach. Uh, and mom was a stay at home mom and she was involved with school stuff and community and it was great.

And, uh, I, they introduced my little brother, uh, when I was about nine and a half. Uh, but around that time, uh, their marriage was starting to show cracks and I think that was the catalyst. They decided to part ways and it wasn't, uh, it wasn't the most amicable split to, you know, divorce is really tough, so,

Kelly Kennedy: yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So on we onward we go with a, with a split FA family and then a blended family. My dad got remarried and, um, yeah, I grew up playing, I started playing guitar when I was 12. Played hockey my whole life and just, you know, no notes up until there, but the, I think divorce for any kid, for most kids that was kind of my first trauma.

Yeah. And it was really tough because like, I loved them both so much and um, and life was good. And now, you know, there's some animosity and just things that kids had to navigate and, they were doing the best they could, but they never really checked in with us. Uh, little ones, my brother was too small, but so I, I internalized a lot of that.

Uh, you know, I was raised kind of a boot bootstraps kid, and my dad was tough guy, a guy I looked up to. He internalized a lot. And so that's what the model was. And for a lot of boys that's what it, it's, right. Yeah. We, we just tough it out. So, fast forward to high school. You know, I was pretty outgoing and started at a new school, moved from Edmonton to Sherwood Park, which is just like kind of a little hamlet outside of Edmonton.

But for a teenager it's like moving to Florida. Like all my friends got left behind.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I was trying to connect with new students and, and make some friends. And, um, you know, there was an incident that happened in grade 10. Uh, it happened on school grounds, but um, we used to call it boys being boys, and, uh, you know, I could hold my own pretty well and. It, it escalated into, into an assault sexual assault.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Kristopher Marks: That was, um, that was something that I just kept to myself as well, and it, it really crossed a lot of wires in my mind. Like I was a straight A student, honors kind of headed for university like the rest of my family.

And

Kelly Kennedy: yeah,

Kristopher Marks: by the time I graduated it was, uh, I had a different attitude. Life at home was tough. Uh, I was asked to leave home at 18, a couple weeks after grad. You know, and there, uh, that was a big shift. I wasn't ready, didn't have any life skills, no money saved. And, uh, as the first one of my friend group who had their own place after high school, uh, we had a lot of fun for a couple years.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Just winging it. And, uh, yeah, when I was 20 I came home one day and there, there was an extra lock on my apartment door and I had paid rent and estranged from my family, kind of disconnected from my friends. Like, for watching this podcast, my, my hair will tell you I'm, I'm a. A little bit older, so back then, like didn't have a cell phone or car or anything.

And I spent a period of time unhoused and uh, that was a big shift to go from like a pretty well todo middle class family, uh, to that. So, struggled with, with depression, uh, especially since the incident in high school. I had trouble with my sleep and, um, yeah, I, I tried to take my own life when I was 20 and, uh, survived obviously, and, and kept that secret as well.

So here I am as this outgoing guitar party guy. And I had a lot of secrets and I was kind of showing up inauthentically. I got really good at masking. And, uh, you know, when we dive into the mental health side of it, that was, I was showing up in, in whatever way that whatever friend I was with or friend group wanted, right?

So if they liked the Guitar Hero guy show up as that. If they want the, you know, the close friend or the, the ride or die, show up as that. But I really had no identity. And, uh, really struggled in my twenties just to manage my own mental health and what career. I was bartender. I worked at Staples, I worked at Denny's and Earl's.

I was a door todo salesman. Yeah. Uh, didn't know what I wanted. And I, in the back of my mind I'm like, geez, I was this really smart kid, wanted to be a teacher or a marine biologist because of Free Willie. Right. So, and, uh, had all these dreams, but it, you know, I was just scraping by. And then I was 24, I reached out to my dad.

I, I reconnected with him and I said, Hey, I'm looking for, for a change in my life. And he knew what was going on. And at first, you know, there was some friction there, but, um, but he said he was living in Grand Prairie at the time. And I, I like to joke, like nobody moves to Grand Prairie to start their life over.

Intro: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But, um, but he said, you know, I play hockey, but the guy who owns a machine shop, I could probably get you a job as a laborer. And, uh, and I, I moved up there, bought me a ground tickets, and I left my party ways behind and started to get my feet down. It was 2000, gosh, 2007, six, somewhere around there.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Alberta was booming. They couldn't find enough people. So I was cutting steel and my boss said, Hey you're a smart guy. I'll put you on a lathe and see how you do. And being an artist, you know, I was that kid who wrote poetry and songs and I played music. It was like this metal art and very precise.

And that's why my hair looks like the before picture on a box of just for men. Stressful at times too, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And, um, but I, I liked it. Uh, I liked it enough. I liked that kind of work too. So got my journeyman ticket, move back Edmonton. And this whole time, you know, I was, I was still keeping these like dark secrets and these things that I struggled with and it sort of bubbled up in my early thirties.

And I, I went back, uh, I, I shouldn't say I went back, but I, I decided to go to therapy, tried out, and uh, I canceled my first four appointments. I made them, drove there, canceled from the parking lot four times. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Kristopher Marks: I was terrified 'cause nobody knew like what I was Sure. So I finally go in and I meet this guy, his name was Jorge, and he was the first like human I'd really ever told everything to.

And I was crying and he was crying and it was just, it was just pouring out and just heavy and hard. And he kind of looked at me after I'd finished, he said, Kris, he says, do you know what I do the other seven days a week? Because he was, he was a therapist who did like pro bono once a week. So it was free.

Yeah. And uh, I said, I have no idea. And he said, I work at the Edmonton Max Prison. And I said, okay. And he says, I've heard stories like similar to yours from the, the men that I work with every day, and they end up with me. He said, it's remarkable that you've, you've had healthy relationships, you've got a trade.

You put yourself through NAIT reconnected with your family. And that was, that was a pivotal moment for me. That was the first context I ever had, you know, for somebody who's just has their head down and they're just trying to a lot of people are just winging it and hoping, and yeah, that was the first context I had that it you know, what I'd done was, was something to be proud of.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So he sold me. I went back took more therapy and I switched therapists a couple times, you know, just to get a better fit as I grew. And, uh, anyway, got a handle on my mental health, figured out the sleep thing. I used to suffer from night terrors pretty regularly.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And, uh, you know, when you're working in the trades, not sleeping can be like a physical health and safety issue too.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes.

Kristopher Marks: So I didn't, you know, and that, and that culture, you know, some of the tropes are true. I was part of a lot of it too. I, I own that. But it was tough to kind of call your boss and, and be like, Hey, I, I'm not mentally well. Yeah. Uh, to be on a lathe that could kill me, six ways from Sunday, so you'd lie and pretend to be sick and I'd flake outta jobs.

So that cycle weighed on me. And then we're talking about COVID. So I, I had this long tenure in the trades and, and it was doing well. Got laid off like a lot of us. And, um, I had about 50 weeks of just about a full year, uh, which was, you know, good during COVID. And, uh, my body was starting to kind of give up on the trades.

And you, you can see me right now, like standing at my desk and that's kind of residual from, from being a machinist. 'cause I was freestanding for eight hours a day and I'm, I'm used to it. Like, my body doesn't like to sit for too long.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So, um, so anyway, I decided to go back to school. I enrolled at, uh, Athabasca University.

At that around the time, like when Twitter was still cool, I had grown a following tweeting about mental health, like men's mental health or what it was like to go to therapy. And

Kelly Kennedy: yeah,

Kristopher Marks: just, I like connecting with people. I always have. And, uh, like every other white guy during COVID, I started a podcast.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes.

Kristopher Marks: And, uh, and that gained some traction to it. I, I would bring on guests like way above my pay grade to kind of translate, you know, their expertise into that layman sort of way. And, um, anyway, I thought, Hey, maybe there's something here. So, but I thought to work in mental health, you had to be a resource.

You had to be a counselor or a therapist, and I was willing to, you know, put that work in and do it. But then I had like 20 weeks of EI left and seven years of school left. So I'm like, what am I, what am I gonna do? And, uh, you know, I got an opportunity from a woman who's whose comms person found me on Twitter and said, Hey, you should follow this guy.

And she does, you know, respectful workplace training. Her name's Michelle Devlin and she's, she's been my mentor since day one and saw how I connected with people and she said, Hey, do you wanna come co-facilitate. So as the callback, I'd always wanted to be a teacher. I taught music, you know, in the evenings over the years.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And so I'd work in a little bit of mental health conversations into like the, the harassment and bullying topics that we'd cover together. And VIV was kind of born and I, I didn't know what it was gonna be. I just knew that maybe there was a, a place for me to, you know, speak but like teach and develop content to kind of change the way that this topic is taught and, and presented.

And I, the artist in me really enjoys that. I like being creative with, with how it goes. And I, you know, I do get to speak about my personal experiences. So, you know, I come at this work, honestly.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But, uh, the professional expertise side with leadership training in that, I mean, I put my due diligence in there as well for a guy who wasn't involved in that, in that culture.

You know, I was in the trades, so it was a new world for me and I. Kelly, I'm a big try hard, so I really thought, you know, why not me? I'll just do the best that I can and

Kelly Kennedy: yeah,

Kristopher Marks: over deliver where I can and, and, um, and four, almost four years later, VIV has, has grown. We've doubled every year. We don't advertise, you know, we're, we're active on socials and that, but it's, it's really a human-centric I was the face of VIV for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. And PE people, you know, I was lucky. People wanted to work with me. They just, I'm not everybody's flavor, but, you know, I got opportunities and, and now VIV has grown into, you know, its own thing. It's a social enterprise. We have a for-profit side. We do a ton of community work. And our three pillars are, are, like you mentioned, like communities, classrooms, and workplaces.

And we give equal value to all of those because I, I think they're so integrated. So that's kind of where we are today. And it's, uh, it's surreal. This is cathartic for me, Kelly, to like talk it out and be like, oh, look at that. Look how far, how far I've come. But, um, yeah, I'm pretty, pretty blessed and very grateful,

Kelly Kennedy: man.

Yeah, every time I hear that story, and I, and I wanna, I wanna poke a little further into the story as well. Oh yeah,

Kristopher Marks: for sure.

Kelly Kennedy: But every time I hear you say that, I'm just like, first off, thank you. Thank you for being here. Really like, you know, for anybody struggling with mental health to the point of suicide, we're lucky.

We're fortunate and lucky that you are still with us. And you know, to anybody listening, if you're feeling that way a hundred percent, there's somebody, there's, there's an impact. You still have to leave in this world. There's still something incredible. You know, you can just take this story from Kris today and hear how he, he went from that from such a, a dark place in his life to now making such a massive impact in other people's lives.

And that can be you too. That is you too. I, I think we forget sometimes how impactful everybody's life really is. It really is. Yes. Everybody has a massive impact on the people around them, and in some cases, across continents. And I think it's really important to remember that everybody has value.

Kristopher Marks: You're so right. And, and thank you for that. I mean, gosh. Yeah. Like, I, I can take myself back. I put in a lot of years of very quiet work and healing to kind of get to the point where, you know, in some of my keynotes, I do share my story or podcasts like this. But that, that wasn't overnight. I had a lot of work to do.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And, um, but it's worth it. And it wasn't all work either. I don't, I shouldn't frame it that way because, you know, that first one was pretty heavy. But, but to have someone look at your life objectively and. Be outside of what you're experiencing and kind of tell you about it is really neat. And it's not, it's not scary.

It's just information. Like, it's just inventory of, of who you are. And I found that really empowering and you know, we go through life, we still make mistakes. I still have tough days.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: You know, but it, there's, uh, there's so much that you can do and offer. And Kelly, like, I, I'm gonna be honest, like my story's not special.

Like, we all have a life story. Anyone, any anyone in the world could come into podcast and like blow our minds with an experience or, or a lesson that they learned. I'm, it's just my story, but there's a lot that I've, I've grown from. Like, I wasn't always this person. I used to look back with a lot of regret on some things and with stuff with my parents, even like mending, that bridge took real.

And I commend them. I love them so much.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And, um, but it was hard. I had to realize that, you know, they were doing the best they could too. And, and just like any relationship in your life it's worth and it's, there's lots that people can contribute. Yeah, that's what I have to say about that.

Kelly Kennedy: I wanna go back to twenties.

Like not go back to twenties. Twenties was, was up and down, but

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: I wanna go back to, let's go to being 20. I did lose friends in my twenties. One to suicide for sure. One to a heart attack others to drunk driving twenties is hard. I, I genuinely think as a man, the most risk.

Any young person is at is in their early twenties. I, I think that you think you're invincible. You're doing the stupidest things, you're not exactly like thinking about the future. Uh, I'm a very different person today, honestly, at 20, I couldn't even predicted the person I am today. There's no way I, I didn't even know what this was.

Right?

Kristopher Marks: Like, yes.

Kelly Kennedy: It's crazy to think back to being 20. And then kind of forward project yourself to today and realize that like you are somebody completely different than you ever thought you would be. And, and I think that's the same for everybody in their twenties. It's such like a, a weird place where you don't know who you are, what you're gonna do, what you don't know.

A lot of the times you are living for the weekend, you're living for that party, right?

Kristopher Marks: Yep.

Kelly Kennedy: Um, and you're gonna live forever. And you know, I just wanna, I just wanted to mention that like during that time I did lose people. I lost a lot of people, a lot of close people. And it was to stupid things like that, right.

To, to a future that I think I, I guess what I'm getting at with this is I wish those people were still with us. I wish that they could have seen their futures and their story was similar to yours. It just ended in a different way.

Kristopher Marks: That's really eloquently put. And, um, even going back to high school, ask any high school kid what, you know, their whole world is their friend group or what people think of them.

And I, I was one of them. Yeah. And you just have no idea yet how far your antennas are gonna reach and how much of the world you're gonna experience and how much you're gonna grow. You have no idea. And it's hard to explain that to somebody.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Because it's like trying to find the edge of the universe that's always expanding.

Right. So. I'm a big space nerd too, so

Kelly Kennedy: Me too. We bring on anybody from Spray Industries we can find these days.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. So the dark matter of life is what's pushing the universe further. But it's you that was really beautifully put. And then yeah. I lost people along the way too, and I also ruminated over what would've happened had I been successful and, and the impact that would've had on, you know, my brother and my parents and that my grandmother, who I'm very close to still, she's like my best friend and she was the one who always believed in me and remembered the, the honors kid and, and, um, so I, I credit her a lot, but

Kelly Kennedy: yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Even though our stories are, are all very different, um, I, there's people out there who've never experienced what I've been through and

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: The emotions that we feel and, and along the way, that's where we connect with people.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So you don't have to know what it's like to be unhoused, to know what it feels like to be, to feel really alone and given up on that's where you can be compassionate with people.

You don't have to understand the details so much.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But we all know what it's like to feel overwhelming joy or to have somebody come back in your life that you've missed so much. Or to be just up against it and hopeless that we know what that feels like, the fundamentally. So if you're trying to connect with somebody, that's, that's where you start.

Don't sweat the details so much, but that's where you empathize.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. I think. Well, like you said before, we're all hiding. We're all hiding. Right. Like being our, it's so funny. I talk about it. I literally have another live show that we do called Authentic Hustle. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. But we, we talk about authenticity a lot and how it's really hard and even when people are being authentic, there's still stuff they're holding back.

There's still

Kristopher Marks: Oh, a hundred percent.

Kelly Kennedy: There's still your authentic face. Sure. But like, there's still certain things that I'm not willing to talk about that other people are not willing to talk about. And it doesn't mean that you're being inauthentic. I think it just means that we all have to decide how authentic we want to be with the world based on our own comfort level.

And over time, you know, that might change. You've spent so much time practicing being authentic that I think you really do show up in this. I'm gonna bear it all to the world. You know, talk to me, how did you get there? How, how were you able to go from somebody who had hid something for so long, had been through so much trauma?

To the person you are today. I, I just, I, I can't imagine what that transformation has to be like and that bravery has to be like, how do you find the bravery to, to be the person you're today?

Kristopher Marks: That's a loaded question. I'll caveat it by saying that yes, it appears that I'm very open and authentic and to a degree, I certainly am.

I've grown lots, but you're right, I don't share everything and no one should like, have boundaries. And my, my therapist gave me the best advice, so we'd seen each other for a few years and I told her about vibe and kind of what I wanted to do with my story, and she said, don't ever share anything that you haven't healed from.

So that motivated me so much.

Kelly Kennedy: I like that. I like, I like that as just a guideline

Kristopher Marks: and it, it motivated me to really put in some work so that I could. Be kind to myself telling that story. It's embarrassing. Like really? I'm not proud of what,

Kelly Kennedy: it's hard. It's hard.

Kristopher Marks: And, but I mean, it's part of you. So what's like, what's in it for me?

And I'm, I'm gonna be honest, and I, I share this with audiences too. Like, it's cathartic for me. It's very validating. All the quiet work that I did, all the mistakes I made and, and the times I spent in my own head, all that stuff is validated. When I got to the point, I'm like, okay, I can share this and maybe there's some use to it, but I'm, I'm cautious.

And you know, we should all have boundaries. Kelly, like, you don't have to go up on a stage and share your trauma and life story. That's not, that's not how I frame it. I guess it's a privilege to have that space and to see it make an impact. But there is something in it for me too. 'cause it feels good.

And I'm practicing. I wasn't always like this, you know, I, yeah, I wore a lot of masks and I lied a lot, and I, I showed up as whatever version of Kris that, that I thought people needed or expected. And it's been a real journey to, to a tone for some of that. And to be humble enough to kind of embrace growth and give myself permission to be more true to myself.

It's a spectrum, right? It's not, we shouldn't frame it as like, how did you become authentic? It's like, I'm not there yet. Like you, it's a fish you can't catch.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So you, you just work, you point your needle towards it, and you work towards it. But it is very liberating. You don't have to remember as much.

You can just kind of show up and, there's downsides too, Kelly. Like there, there are people who are quite taken aback. By authenticity. Yes. And that's a real barrier and that's something that doesn't get talked about a ton.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But there are people who can't wait to be themselves and, and there's pushback.

Right. So

Kelly Kennedy: I love that. I love that you brought up that it's not that there are people that push back. It's so funny 'cause we were literally talking about this on this week's show and I was talking about is it, can everybody truly be authentic? Which is a stupid, you would think it's a stupid thing, right?

Like at the end of the day, of course, like we should all be able to be authentic. But I made the kind of the proposal that being truly authentic is actually a privilege. And it tends to be a privilege that's only awarded to people who have a certain level of status. You know what I mean? Like Yes.

Like for instance, I don't think that like an average employee to this day, even though we wish it was, that case, can go in and tell their boss, you know, I, you know, I'm struggling with these things or, or I am who I am. And if it rubs that employer the wrong way, whether they're being authentic or not, they may still get repercussions for it.

Kristopher Marks: Absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy: Right. Whether they're direct or indirect. And I think it's kind of crazy because I think on one level, and I wanted to really talk with you about this today, is that we we're pushing mental health, we're pushing, people need to be able to be more open. But I still think that the world is not necessarily welcoming of those things.

And that the truly authentic people, the people that you see really being themselves, they had to earn that, right? They had to reach a level of status. And I, I don't think it's fair, but I think it is the way it is. It's like it's a, being truly authentic, being able to truly be yourself is a status symbol.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. I think it can be for sure. Um, there's so much to unpack with what you said there, but

Kelly Kennedy: I know, I know.

Kristopher Marks: Um, going back to like the repercussions, I just wanna touch on that. So I've, I've facilitated, you know, fire halls, first responders talked about mental health and one of the ways that we created safety so that they could be more authentic was to kick out HR all their leadership.

Yeah. And just had the boots on the ground and that, that fostered. And I'm the third party. Yeah. So like, who am I? They can say whatever they want.

Kelly Kennedy: Correct.

Kristopher Marks: But the learning that happened and the healing that happened just from then having that space was, that's psychological safety. Right? That's my wheelhouse.

And that's, that's what you're always trying to create now? No. You can't just go to every employer and, and bear your heart and hope it all turns out well. We have social platitudes for a reason. We, we have certain barriers like that are useful. So when it comes to. When we're trying to be authentic, what we're looking for is like acknowledgement and support.

Somebody, like the reassurance that somebody is looking at us as like a, with warts and all just as a human being.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But when we ask someone, like at the coffee shop, like, Hey, how's your day going? I'll have a, you know, whatever. We're not looking for their life story. We're just kind of saying like, Hey, you're alive.

Me too Neat. Uh, need a coffee. So you

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But when we, when we care about somebody and, and it's really beneficial you know, to have that information, there has to be something in it for you to be authentic. We're human beings, we're selfish. There has to be something in it for you. If we don't speak to that, you're never gonna change minds.

You, you can't just tell people, Hey, you should be more authentic.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Um, why, like, what? It's way easier to not be if it saves me, you know, a conversation or potential repercussions. So that's the burning question, like what's in it? What's it for me personally to be authentic? I don't, it, I felt very inauthentic for many years.

Yeah. And it weighed on me. I'm not, I'm not without a conscience. I didn't like not showing up authentically be myself, being honest.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So that was my shift. I'm like, I think I should move towards that area. And I'm not entirely an open book. I mean, my private life, it's privates and there's things that are sacred in our lives, but connection is a really powerful thing.

Yeah. And it, it's a snake that eats its own tail. It really breeds itself. And when you can, um, from a leadership standpoint, I like to teach them like, I'll go first. You know, like if you feel like your team is really closed off from you, you're not getting all the information that you need to run the business or be a leader.

You have to model what you expect. And that means you might have to go first. Doesn't mean you have to share your entire life story like I just did, but maybe. You have to share. So share, that's how you build trust. That's how people look at you and go, okay, you're, you're a human being. I don't wanna be put on a pedestal, Kelly.

Like, I have many flaws. Like we all do.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, we all do.

Kristopher Marks: But that's important sometimes just to find it within yourself and practice. I'll go first.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I, I love it. You know, like, as, it's so funny 'cause I don't know if you know him, do you know Brad Warren? He's outta Calgary. He has,

Kristopher Marks: I don't, I know the name though, but I, I dunno him.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay. He owns a company called Our Invisible Empire. He's an awesome guy. But it was funny because we were talking once and, and his mentor once told him, and it's so, it's so relevant to business development and I'm not sure how we're ever gonna truly get away from it. But he, he mentioned that Mickey Mouse can never have a bad day.

And I always quote Brad when I say that because that is his line. But he says, Mickey Mouse can never have a bad day if you're at Disneyland. Mickey Mouse is having the best day ever, no matter whether the person inside that suit is having, you know, the worst day they've ever had.

Kristopher Marks: Right.

Kelly Kennedy: And I think as a business developer.

Yeah, I clawed my way through my career to where I'm at today, being able to put on that smile, that face,

Kristopher Marks: it's a costume.

Kelly Kennedy: Even though behind it, I might be having the worst day ever. I might have just lost a friend. I might have just had, you know, a lost a whole bunch of money in the stock market or whatever.

I'm, I'm having a horrible day behind the mask, right? But when I, when it was time to hook up for those meetings, when it was time to show up in the boardroom, when it was time, I had to learn how to put on a brave face. And I think so many people to this day, and this is what I meant by, can you truly be authentic?

Because as a business developer, you can't really show up to that boardroom, wearing your face, how you wearing your feelings on your face, right? Like, people are not and it's unfortunate, but people are just not receptive. If you show up in a room and you're, you're crying or you're having, you're having a moment, right?

I don't know. Do you think we'll ever get there?

Kristopher Marks: I, yeah. Again, I, I don't like to frame anything as like a destination, but what I do see happening is that there's some real benefits to showing up authentically, even if you're in a leadership position. There's a lot of value again, like what's in it for a leader to do that?

Yeah. Because it might be uncomfortable. There might be people who, you know leading from beside or within your team is a great way to provide opportunity for, for people to step up and, everybody's waiting for that chance to, to level up. Yeah. Um, you know, so when people lean on me or whatever, and I have the capacity to be there for them, and like it selfishly it feels good and I'm like, Hey, I could be there for, you know, there's the reassurance that maybe they'll be there for you as well.

But there's something in it for you to try. Yeah. And, before that happens, you have to foster that kind of environment. And to be honest, Kelly, like I. Like to think I have a pretty good business reputation and, and just a personal reputation. I'm not everybody's flavor and I'm, you know, I used to really try to be, and, um, that's, I

Kelly Kennedy: think we all do.

Yeah. I think we all try to be liked, right? No one wants to go into a room and be the person who's not liked.

Kristopher Marks: That's right. And, but you know what? I like people who, uh, I think a lot of us, like people who are just gonna walk with their own walk. You know, they can fit in, they could rub should I could rub shoulders in a machine shop or a C-suite boardroom, right?

But I, I can own both of those things. I can own the Albert accent that comes out of the side of my mouth after a pint, right? I can, uh, I can be that. And, I had a, I'll be honest with you, Kelly, like straight up between me and you. Like, I had a really tough morning today. Was it Friday, April 4th?

Really tough morning. I had a tough evening and then woke up kind of with the, the residuals of that and a couple of heavy conversations and my whole day before this recording was just packed.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And I was, I was a bit on the verge, you know, I have all these regulation skills and why am I sharing that?

'cause I can I don't really feel that anyone's gonna judge me for that. 'cause we've all had days like that.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: I was really looking forward to talking with you, but that's the fact, like three hours ago, like I was, I was a bit of a mess. I'm on my second coffee and just my head was swirling. So even just sharing something like that as a leader or a colleague or whatever can go a long way to be like, oh yeah.

Like I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm fine. You can add all those caveats too, but just be like, oh yeah, I kind of went through it for a couple hours, so.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh dude, me too. We're gonna talk about it after.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah,

Kelly Kennedy: me too. Yeah, some, you know what, that's, but you know what so much of that is, so much of that is just life, right?

Like. It's just not always sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes it's a thunderstorm, sometimes it's a torrential downpour, sometimes it's a hurricane. But life goes on. I want to go back and just talk with you about that situation. I think I was, I wanna say I was literally 20, literally 20 when my one friend, uh, died from suicide.

And I remember just, I was toast. I didn't even want to get outta bed. He was one of my closest friends gone all through high school together. Right.

Kristopher Marks: Wow.

Kelly Kennedy: And I just and been through a lot of crazy things. Right. Like, it was one of those things where it's like, I should have died for probably six times.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: And when it's somebody, you know, it's like, holy cow. Right. And I remember, I, I think I didn't, I'd been in bed, I just didn't get outta bed and it was like a week. And my dad came into my room and, uh, he gave me the best advice he ever gave me. And he just said, look, you gotta get up, Kelly. Today, you gotta get up and you gotta do the thing you would've done anyway.

And today it's gonna be hard, and tomorrow it's gonna be hard. And the next day it's gonna be hard, but you just gotta get up and do it. And one day you're gonna wake up and it's not gonna be that hard. And the next day it's gonna be even less hard. And one day you're gonna wake up and it's not gonna be hard at all.

But you gotta keep going. You just gotta keep going. I still get chills when I, when I think about that because That's great, great advice. Good man. What, what he was saying was, your life has to go on no matter what just happened, your life has to go on. And the secret to doing that sometimes is fake it till you make it is, is just get up and do the thing you don't wanna do until it's not un until, until you can do it again, you know?

Kristopher Marks: We talk about modeling, right? So when we have mentors or people we look up to and have behavior modeled for us, like as a couple of men, you know, like I wouldn't have known what any of this looks like if I didn't have like, amazing, like, women in my life, my mom and my grandma, my two best friends were girls in junior high.

Like

Kelly Kennedy: yeah,

Kristopher Marks: they, their communication skills were amazing. We just talked and then I go to hockey practice and be like, how are we feeling boys? And they're like, I dunno, itchy. And it's like, so you gotta practice, right? Yeah. But it's, um, yeah, I, yeah, there's, I mean there's, we gotta build resilience and like that's left out of a lot of the mental health and wellness space because it's a bit of a, I don't wanna say taboo, but how do you tell somebody to pull up their bootstraps?

That's kind of how we like frame it. And it's not about that. It's uh, you only fail when you fail to try.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And I worked for a guide a machinist, best machinist I've ever worked for last six years of my tenure. And, uh, that was his favorite saying we took on work that no one else would touch, highest risk, worst steel to cut, like just gross R&D stuff and worked out.

The risk was so high and no other shop would touch it. And he was like, yeah, give it to us. And we were four guys in that shop and he is like, we only fail when we failed to try. So that, I think about that sentence every day. And I feel like your, your dad was kind of in that same, same mindset because it does get easier and

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: It's always worse in our minds too. I, I ruminate lots, I spend too much time in here. Right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But out there, everybody's just winging it. We're all trying our best, we're

Kelly Kennedy: all winging it. Yeah. At the highest boardroom level, we are all winging it. I, I, I think that was one of the most surprising things, you know, as I became an executive myself, was that I realized that all these people.

They're just doing the best they can. They don't have all the answers. They're just trying to move forward. Right. I think that was really surprising because as a kid, I think I looked up to executives, especially as just a worker and being like, those guys have all the answers. They know Exactly. Totally.

And it's like once you get old enough to be in that room, you're like, oh shit. They don't have the answers either. We're all just doing the best we can and hoping for the best.

Kristopher Marks: Ask parents, every parent will tell you that too. It's like, oh, my parents seem so smart until I gotta grade three math. And then, you know, but that's, that's good to remember, right, because we're all just trying our best and that is enough.

Like your best, your best day today is put pants on. Celebrate that.

Kelly Kennedy: That's right.

Kristopher Marks: So I,

Kelly Kennedy: I've got my pants on today. Things are gonna happen.

Kristopher Marks: You know, I, I put pants on for you, Kelly. I'm like proud of myself, you know, if you have, if my camera falls off my monitor here we're Okay. So

Kelly Kennedy: It's funny 'cause you know, when I talked to you and I, I think back to 2007, 2008, right?

Yeah. And it's like, you know, I was, I was 18 at that time, 19 just about, I guess you would've probably been in your twenties.

Kristopher Marks: Yep.

Kelly Kennedy: And I just remember like growing up in Alberta in that time, and I think me and you were both a product of the exact same generation that, you know, Alberta, strong generation, right?

Just, just shut your mouth but your nose to the grind zone and get her done. And a lot of that was, suck it up buttercup. Right? Like that was really the motto of this place. And I don't know if that was the motto of all Canada, but it was definitely the motto of Alberta. And I used to pride myself, Kris, on being tough.

On being able to suck it up. I'm being able to push through even the hardest stuff.

Kristopher Marks: Yep.

Kelly Kennedy: I just like back, I still, yeah, right. Like, you're right. Like, I think there are still, like, there's still points of pride just growing up in that time to being able to be like, you know what, today sucked. Or, I'm dealing with some really horrible things, but I was still able to show up and get her done and move this business forward, move my client forward, whatever it is, you know, show up for my family that day, whatever the point is.

And I guess my question to you is, is that still what we're doing? I don't know, man, like sometimes I wonder what was the right move? Was that not the right move to be able to just push through and get things done and be tough? Like, or was it just, I I love that question.

It was just overwhelmingly negative.

Kristopher Marks: No, man. I love that question. I'll tell you about a conversation I had with my dad. So him and I, he was, he was this guy I looked up to, he was tough. And you know, I, when I grew up playing hockey, I was tough. I was a stay-at-home defenseman. I hit, I fought I scrapped, you know, like what, I played a whole season with a shoulder that fell out every game at that point, a whole season.

I heard it in the first practice of the, of the year. And my dad, you know, would send me back out there and pop it back in. He didn't know how. He's like, I don't figure out, like, and I, we were sitting on Kristmas Eve a few years ago, I don't think I've ever told this story publicly, but this was a monumental in our relationship and the girls had all gone to bed and we're up drinking rum.

We're a few in. And I was reminiscing about the hockey days 'cause that's when we really bonded.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And you know, I said, you know, dad, there were some times I'd try out for a team, didn't have a good tryout and the, you know, the van ride home would be really silent and heavy and he was disappointed and, but I said, you know, you really brought out the best in.

I know that it wasn't maybe in the best way, it was the way that you knew. You knew only knew how, but I said It really, you really pushed me. And I knew I was the best hockey player I could be. I was the toughest I could be. And he, he puts his rum down and he started crying. And I, I'm trying not to right now, but it was really beautiful.

I'd never seen him cry.

And he gets up and he stands over the sink. And I walk over to him, I said, what's going on? Like, no, it's okay, dad. Like I, you know, you really, put some of those good values in me. I know. And he shook his head. He's like, no, Kris. He's like, no. He's like, I'm sorry.

And I'm still trying to reassure him. And I'm like, no. I think some of it was help me toughen up a little bit. And he said I was too tough. He's like, I was too tough, too tough, too often. And, um, we never talked about it again, one of my favorite moments of humility for him. So all that to say, to answer your question, I think it's important to test our metal and our proverbial envelope changes.

Yeah. We grow over time sometimes we're, I'm resilient in ways that Kelly, you might crumble and vice versa. Right? Some people don't like flying, but they're, great on a, on a boat. I have no sea legs, but I love planes. Our fear is kind of, we do need to know where our limits are, and it's just that inventory, it's just information.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So even if you don't overcome something, you know where you're at and that's empowering and you know where to get up to next time to try it again.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. Man, I, oh my, yeah. Let's talk about parenting for a second.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: I am not the parent I thought I was, or I thought I was going to be.

That's the right word. Holy crap. Am I not the parent I thought I was gonna be?

Kristopher Marks: Go on.

Kelly Kennedy: I look back to being a kid and thinking like, oh, I'll be so easy going. I'll be able to just like, let them do whatever they want to do. Right. Like, I remember I remembered having this conversation with my mom, telling her how much of a better parent I was gonna be than her.

Right. Holy crap, man. Like, I, I am a hard parent and I recognize that, you know, I have three older stepsons now. They're 11, nine and eight, and they're a handful. I have a newborn who's a little over a year old. Wow. We have one on the way. Right. And it's just like, I have, oh man, I don't even know, like I, I don't know sometimes how to.

How to parent in a softer way. Even though I want to be able to parent in a softer way. It's like World War III a lot of the time in our house. It's complic, right? It's complicated and it's hard. Like lemme just give a gigantic shout out to every father out there, every mother out there who's come before us who are hearing this right now, I'm right there with you.

Parenting is flipping hard and making the right decision is really hard. And I think being able to be a compassionate parent as often as possible, it is a choice, but it's a damn hard choice to make. My fiance is so much of a better parent. I'm, thank God, but I'm working on it. But like you just, I, okay.

The reason I'm saying this right now is because I heard what you said about your father, and I don't want to have to say that to my kid. And yet I feel like one day I'm gonna have to say that to my kid.

Kristopher Marks: I. Man, I'm gonna push back on you a little bit just 'cause we're friends. So you're a great parent.

Every parent has their own style and you're doing the best that you can too. But the way that, there's probably some similarities to the way that you were brought up as to how you parent. That's the only model you have to go on, aside from like YouTube and Facebook chats and don't do that. So you're, and, but you found a partner who compliments your style.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And uh, you know, I don't think there's one better or worse, but it's the blend that they'll be thankful for, hopefully.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And I think every parent as perfect as they could be, could always sit down across from their kid 20 years later and apologize for something.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So I, you know, I wouldn't sweat.

Um, you know, what it looks like day to day. It's hard. Right? It's hard. And shout, shout out to stepparents and caregivers as well.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Um, because they don't get enough love either. And, you know, my stepmom and dad, like, I, I love them both so much and we didn't always get along, but I respect they were trying their best to.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. It's definitely the hardest job. Parenting is harder than any other job bar none, period. Like it is just hard and it's never ending. And it's relentless. Yeah, right. Like, it's just,

Kristopher Marks: it doesn't pay great, but there's like,

Kelly Kennedy: and it doesn't pay great. No,

Kristopher Marks: it's expensive actually. It's like, but I played in a band, it was very expensive to like, do what I love too.

So,

Kelly Kennedy: Kris, you've done something really incredible and I, you know, hats off man. Hats off. You know, you, you went from, you did a very interesting pivot, man. Like, let me just start off by saying, I know there's people listening who are thinking, wait, you were a tradesman for a decade, and then, oh yeah, you completely did something different.

Not to mention, went out on your own, founded your own company. In a completely different industry, right? Yeah. Um, there are entrepreneurs and people who are aspiring to be entrepreneurs or maybe are making that jump right now who are hearing this story, Kris, and thinking, how do I do that? How do I, uh, let's say they're an electrician and they wanna be a mental health expert, or they wanna do a complete career change and maybe found a company with something they're more passionate about.

Not many people can say that they've done what you've done, Kris. And I can say that right now, at this point, I've interviewed, you know, 200 people and I, and this has come up like a, a pivot this big maybe once. It's not something you see every day. Please, for the people listening who want to make a major life shift, how did you do it?

Kristopher Marks: I really appreciate that, Kelly. When you put it like that, it kind of, it gives me pause and I'm like, oh, that's pretty neat.

Kelly Kennedy: It's a big, it's a big shift

Kristopher Marks: as an entrepreneur. Like I've had my head down for four years, like I was all in, so I was on ei. And with no inclination or hope, I didn't wanna go back to the trades.

I was kind of done. I was all, all in. And that, that's a great motivator, but I wouldn't recommend it if you could do a little bit more planning ahead of time, you know, that would've been great. But two things I think served me really well. And you gotta get lucky too, but one of them was just recognizing how people saw me.

And kind of going after that and thinking there was something to it. And what I mean by that is, you know, I was just a guy on Twitter who was talking about mental health. Once in a while I post pictures of my dog and like, just life. But it was very, it was just me. It was that authenticity piece I felt very free.

And, uh, people would hop into my dms and they'd, they'd be going through some real things. And these are internet strangers.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: I don't have kids. I love kids, but I just like had different plans. So I would spend my evening. Just chatting with strangers or talking about things, connecting with them.

Like, I really loved that.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And when people see you and you start to recognize, okay, people see me as like a maybe a safe person, somebody who has some knowledge in an area and they're coming to you for that consistently, that's a clue on something that you're skilled at, but maybe something you can pursue.

And, um, you know, I, I don't think I'm gonna be an NHL player anymore as bad as I want that. But it did help me with all the options out there, like focus in on, well, I think I'm good at connecting or teaching and you know, patience and, and that sort of thing. So it sort of led me to say, okay, I think I could do something in the mental health sphere.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But starting a business was terrifying, man. Yeah. Like I took out two lines of credit. I also broke up with my partner at that time.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Kristopher Marks: And moved out on my own. You know, we're still great friends, but it was just COVID. Impact. Right? But anyway, left my best friend and we, I went for it. So anyway, I was fully leveraged and um, you know, I had about 20 KI did, you know, my psych health and safety training through CMHA gave me a little designation.

It's a certificate. But it gave me some expertise that I could build on my creativity. And so anyway. What was Kris At that time I was a musician. I was somebody who could connect with people. I love to create, I love to just try my best with everything. I'm fun at Monopoly, by the way. Super fun. So I, I went for it and I, I believed every day that I would fail, but there were people who I recognized as like mentors, people who genuinely, you know, like me as a person or just wanted to help.

And I gave them all the time to learn. I said very little in those first, that first year and a half.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: I watched how people approached me and they wanted like a lunch and learn on men's mental health or something like that. And I just tried my hardest. I'm like, you only have one shot. That damn Eminem song was like always playing in my head.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And every opportunity was such a gift and a, and a privilege. People are giving you their time, which is the most valuable thing that we have. So I, I treated everything like a privilege and I still do. So I and I was intentional about a couple things, Kelly, like workplaces, communities, and classrooms.

I'm like, I think I can offer something to each of those. I could have picked a niche. I just do workplace mental health or I just do not-for-profit community stuff, but I'm like, no, that one, that wouldn't be fulfilling. I like variety. But two, I felt like I can contribute to all of them. So what's the risk there is that people would see me as a jack of all trades master, none.

To take that risk. I'm like, what if I achieve at a high level, deliver at a high level for all three? So that's what I set out to do and word of mouth and connecting with people was all I've done since. And, you know, we have clients that are multinational, big clients cross Canada. I, I had a meeting with Hockey Canada this morning.

We just worked with them. Wow. And you know, like how grateful am I? Like every day. It's just awesome. But I've worked harder now than I ever have in my life.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And we, we didn't really dive into like the stress and burnout of it, but I'm sure on almost all of your podcasts, like it comes up

Kelly Kennedy: Yes.

Kristopher Marks: In the entrepreneurial space and that's, that's a real danger I've burnt out for sure.

Yeah. I teach these workshops on burnout and I have ran myself into the ground twice.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So it's not without its risks and any good people around you to, to recognize when you're in, in that. Danger zone. And like I said, when people are given the opportunity to help, it's shocking. They can't wait to step up because they feel important, they feel valued.

So why wouldn't you utilize those relationships and, and ask for help? I had to teach myself that because I was not, I've done everything myself my whole life. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And that was the real lesson.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, me too, man. Me too. I do it all myself.

Kristopher Marks: Still not perfect at it, by the way.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no, I, yeah, I don't know. I, you're right.

Like we all have to get better at asking for help. I think we're all pretty prideful. Most especially entrepreneurs are prideful. We don't like to admit that we don't have all the answers. We don't like to admit that we need that help, but Absolutely. Dude, I've, I've hit the wall plenty of times.

Plenty of times. Like it's, I would say it's a cycle, really. It's that up and down rollercoaster cycle that is entrepreneurship. But um, yeah, it's, it's interesting because, the pivot you made, I wanted to just ask you. Was there like a big catalyst moment? Because I think that's what a lot of people struggle with is it's one thing to make the choice to become an entrepreneur.

It's another thing to take that first action and usually that first action really takes a kick in the ass. For me, it was being, I got pulled into a room at a company that I worked at for 10 years and got told, we don't know what the next year looks like. It's looking scary. You've been with us a long time.

We wanna make sure that, you know, we're setting you up for success here, but understand that setting you up for success here might mean that you don't have a job here in two to three months. So do you have a plan or do you have an alternative option? I launched capital, that was the kick in the butt. I needed to do that.

Yeah. And I, the rest is history. It's probably one of the best decisions I've ever made. When I look back, it was one of the best opportunities that employer could have ever done for me. Like I, I look back at that moment and I still thank my boss to that day for giving me the opportunity to make a choice instead of making that choice for me, which was really cool.

They hired me back actually as, as my first contract as well. Wow. To kind of help me get on my feet. Like, to this day, I owe, I owe Engrity Inspection of a big thank you for helping me become the person I'm today. But I needed the kick in the butt. That was my kick in the butt. Was there a moment for you That was a kick you know, a catalyst for the switch?

Kristopher Marks: If no one's told you lately, I'm really proud of you, man.

That's awesome. That's a great, that's a great success story too. Wow. Was there a catalyst? I mean, like getting laid off? I was so dis disen disenchanted with. Machining, like it was, I was napping after work every day. My body was just like, how do you do this every day? And it's not like I'm old. It just like, it takes its toll mentally and everything.

So when I got that layoff slip, you know, and I was close with my boss and we're both hugging and he was so sad. And I went home and my partner was so supportive and she's like, well just like take some time. And so I did. And you know, I'm on connecting with people and I came up with like a VIV logo and VIV, by the way, the name kind of a silly name, but it comes from Survive and Revive.

And that's like two, two words important to me. So anyway, the catalyst was, it was given to me. I had no choice but to not work and have time to think and I'm very grateful for that. I was always a guy who like valued security. I never went without a job. More than a week, ever. I couldn't afford to either.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But it was, uh, I dunno, just something clicked and I'm like, why, why not me? Like, life's short. Like you, I'd, I've lost some friends along the way and the first one is the most impactful, you know, who's like your age or somebody close to you, you're like, holy cow. Like, it is really fleeting.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And I wanted to do something that I got up every day voluntarily for, and that's, to this day, I get up and I'm, I can't wait. Like every day's different. And

Kelly Kennedy: yeah.

Kristopher Marks: That's been the motivator. But yeah, just having it all taken away from me. I was like, well, if you're gonna shift, like now would be the time.

You know?

Kelly Kennedy: Well, that's it. Right? Like mine was the same, like me and you both launched our companies in 2020. Yeah. Like it was the, it was that moment, it was the catalyst of that wild moment for sure. But I think it changed a lot of lives. You know, a lot of people started podcasts, like you mentioned, a lot of people went out on their own.

I've interviewed plenty of people who started their companies in 2020. Yeah. I think it really was a kick in the butt for a lot of people to do something different. And I hope a lot of people made a choice that they're happy with.

Kristopher Marks: Me too. Yeah. But you know what, again, just to try Yeah. To do something totally for yourself is so liberating and empowering and it's wild and it's, you, you're in it and you're like, oh my gosh.

You have those moments where you're like, I can't believe I'm, I get to sleep in on a Tuesday and like, because my, my first meeting's not till 10 30 or whatever. Yeah. There's all these little gifts and privileges along the way and you know, I was very fortunate, Kelly, that I'm still doing my first.

Try four years later.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And four years from now. Like who who knows? But I'm,

Kelly Kennedy: it all changes.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. It can, it can all change.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But the way I set up my company, like, I thought of that too and I said, if I can be as diverse as I can and like in my intro, you know, I do comedy and music, all that's integrated with our company with engagement.

And I do corporate events and I produce podcasts for the Cross Cancer Institute. I do video production and LMS training and I keynotes and why not? Like why, why not? And if you do it all well then like do that. Setting yourself up for success takes some intentionality for sure. And mental health was not sexy in 2020.

Kelly Kennedy: No.

Kristopher Marks: Like, we were, like if you're talking about workplace training, DEI was the thing.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: It remained the thing for a number of years. There was nobody, I shouldn't say nobody, but very few companies who were like, oh, for sure mental health come on in. Yeah. And I stuck it in my business name. I'm like, it's so universal.

We all have it. And I couldn't say, I couldn't say honestly, that I predicted like you did. The AI would push us back to that human connection place. But you were right. And I'm grateful that you were, and that we've ended up here. The pendulum will always swing.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So how do you keep moving forward and, and do things that get you up in the morning?

So what gets you up in the morning? What's your favorite part of, of your job? I

Kelly Kennedy: love being an entrepreneur, dude. Yeah. I really do. You know, just like you, I'm doing, I don't know what I'd be doing if I wasn't doing this. And then heck, I found podcasting and you did too. And podcasting has been, I look forward to it, man.

Like always like I, has it been hard? Yeah. You know, after we released 225 episodes today, we recorded almost a full year into the future with our guest interviews. This is coming out in, but I love it. I like, I absolutely love this experience. I've had plenty of days where I, where I wasn't in the moment, but once again, they're fleeting and far between.

I may have a day that I don't want to do my show, but then I'll have eight days where I love doing my show, this being one of them. And it's just, it's funny how it's, it, it's funny, like you said, how when you find something you love doing, you can't wait to get up and do it. And I think every entrepreneur, that's what you should aspire for.

Try and find the thing that you can't wait to get up and do. Will there be hard days? Yeah. But there will be really, really good days if you're passionate about it too. So

Kristopher Marks: Totally man.

Kelly Kennedy: And I think that is what entrepreneurship offers that may be a lot of jobs can't offer is that when it's your own baby and it's the thing you wanna be doing, you could do it all day long and never even question the time.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah, sometimes you have to do it all day long. Yeah. Because you gotta get paid or whatever. You gotta deliver.

Kelly Kennedy: And that's right.

Kristopher Marks: You know, there's a trade off, but you're right, and I don't wanna romanticize entrepreneurship too much. Like you and I are examples of, of success and we can say, yeah, we worked hard and uh, we deserve it, but we've also been fortunate and a lot of things have to fall in place.

Yes. People have great ideas all the time that just aren't ready or they're not baked the right way. There's all these things. So my advice, even if you're, even if you don't go all in, get up every day for something. So I did a lot of volunteer work just to connect with people in the mental health community and I'd go to these little community events or like, commemorative this or that, some mental health, uh, YEG, mental health.

And I would just show up and be around it. And I was still machining at the time. I that got me up. That was, it was something of interest. I still jammed with my, my old band mates that got me up. Yeah. And now I incorporate music. So like, you know, hobbies are important, but you can always point your needle towards like, yeah, maybe one day there's, there's a monetization that could happen with this.

Kelly Kennedy: Well,

Kristopher Marks: um, maybe,

Kelly Kennedy: and you also mentioned early on that, it's always a work in progress, right? Like, sure, we're successful to a level, but it's a work in progress and tomorrow is gonna be a different day. And if I stop doing this stuff, I'm outta luck too, right? Like,

Kristopher Marks: yes,

Kelly Kennedy: it's about getting up and taking one little step towards whatever it is you wanna do it.

Kristopher Marks: Put your pants on.

Kelly Kennedy: That's it. It's, it might be as easy. Maybe that's the win for the day. Maybe the win today is that you got out of bed and you put your pants on and maybe tomorrow you get outta bed, you put your pants on, you make it to the kitchen, and the next day you step out the front door. It's little steps, right?

Like every single journey, entrepreneurship, podcasting any hobby you may have starts with a single step. You wouldn't know guitar if you never picked one up. Step one was simply picking up the guitar, right? Everything, every journey, no matter how great or how epic, it becomes always started with somebody putting their shoes on and taking that first step.

And so I always say, no matter what it is you wanna do, just take one step in the right direction and the next step, it starts to come clear what you need to do.

Kristopher Marks: Totally. Point your needle where you want to go. You don't have to get there like right away.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But if you're, if your needles pointed that way, like you'll do always be doing things that.

Speak to where you wanna go.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes.

Kristopher Marks: And uh, I, I gotta add this part too, because I'm a bit of a cowboy when it comes to saying yes. And I said a lot of, yes, in my first year, probably the things that I had no business saying yes to, but self-belief and self-worth, that took a lot of practice to think that I could, there was a lot of like stuff in my head that said I couldn't or I didn't belong, or like, I have no right to be in this meeting or this, have a client like,

Kelly Kennedy: yeah,

Kristopher Marks: but I said yes, and I never, I never doubted that I would deliver to the best of my ability.

Hopefully it was to their expectations. But I learned on the fly. I'm sure you did too, a lot. And you look at an ask, and you have somebody come to you for something and you're like I think I could do that. And the, that's the tradesman in me is you get farmers covered at the door and he is got this widget, it's all busted and gross.

And he's like, can you fix this? And you're like, I dunno, but I'm gonna try.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And that works out really often. And even if you fail, you're like, we're talking about resilience, you know, you know where your limit is.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So say yes sometimes to things you're like, if you're on the fence, fall on the yes side.

Why not?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. I'll give one more example of a great quote my dad said. And uh, I'd ask him, dad, do you know how to do this? And he'd say, Nope, but I'll let you know how as soon as I'm done.

Kristopher Marks: Love it. Exactly. Exactly.

Kelly Kennedy: That's such an Alberta, such an Alberta attitude. Right. We'll, just, I'll let you know. I'll know by the time I'm done how we do it.

Kristopher Marks: It juices me up too because I'm like, I dunno, we'll figure it out. I get when mental health, we talk about that all the time. Like how do you support someone if you don. They have their experiences. You don't have the training. That's what you say. I don't know. Let's, we, let's, and us, I dunno, let's go find out, I dunno, we should go talk to somebody who does know.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And you don't let them go until that warm handoff is created. But it's the same for business. I don't know, but I'm sure gonna try. 'cause I learned, I know how to run this business inside and out. I don't want to be, you know, doing all the invoicing or the logistics forever. Uh, I would love to build a team that can help me with that and I can manage other things.

But I, my old boss, he's like, I know how to fix the toilet and I know how to pay a bill. And he was on the floor machining over his shoulder, like, as he is telling me this. And I'm like, I like that. You don't have to do it forever, but know how it works. I'm just trying.

Kelly Kennedy: Yes. Yeah. And you know what, we live in this time too, where I, there's enough information out there for you to learn how to do just about anything.

The differentiator is the willingness to try, right? Like there's almost nothing I won't try to fix around my home. Am I an electrician? Absolutely not. Am I a plumber? No. But I can fix a toilet, but I can, you know, run some wires if I need to run some wires, right? Like most things are not that hard. If you can have an example of how they're done, and we've never lived in a better time to find examples on how to do something.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: And so really the differentiator can be the simple willingness to try. And I think that's a great place to leave off today, Kris, but

Kristopher Marks: love it.

Kelly Kennedy: Before we do leave off, I wanna talk all about VIV Mental Health. Talk to me, talk to our listeners about all your services, the areas you offer them to and how they can get ahold of you.

Kristopher Marks: I get the plug at the end. That's, I'm grateful for that. So, compassionately, Kelly, it's VIV Mental Health.

Kelly Kennedy: VIV. VIV.

Kristopher Marks: Survive, and revive, my friend.

Kelly Kennedy: My goodness. I'm gonna have to fix all of this.

Kristopher Marks: And I, I can't wait for the edits. If you keep it in, I'll buy a beer. If you take it out, I'll buy it.

Smaller beer. But anyway. No, no shade. It's a, it's a ridiculous name and people mispronounce it all the time. But you know what it does, let me tell like, the quick little story of where the name comes from and it speaks to our values and everything. So great for marketing. So we, uh, yeah, like I said, we support workplaces, communities and classrooms.

The workplace side of things, leadership, employee training. Uh, we have our own mental health training from stress burnout. Communication is a really big one. Uh, the leadership sides, tons of leadership development leading. Leading with mental health in mind is our flagship course. And we've boiled it up to like full day workshops, which are really immersive, very interactive, all the way down to LMS.

We're developing our own. So the training is there and the delivery is like my forte. 'cause I hate boring training and I, I hate wasting people's time. So there's a lot of like practical lived experience, like it's really granular and a lot of our clients come to us for that. You can go to a lot of you know, there's stuff that's already canned from CMHA or, or Mental Health Commission in Canada.

It's great, they're great courses, but it may not speak to your machine shop. It may not speak to your law firm. It may not, so, um, so the customization piece is kind of our forte and yeah, we do, uh, you know, I'm a public speaker. I do a lot of keynotes. That's one of my favorite parts of my job.

Like what a privilege. To have people's time and space to, to talk and inspire and, and share and model the thing. I don't wanna just tell people how to lead better. I wanna show them what it looks like. What does it look like to go first?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Be vulnerable, things like that. Uh, the community side of things is real source of pride for me.

We have, uh, the Instrumental Health Therapeutic Music Program, which, uh, which is like my dream program, man. And like I had a friend, she moved to New York to join Broadway. She came back for a visit. We're sitting around the campfire enjoying things. And uh, she turns to me, it says, Kris, I love what you're doing.

You should have this thing called Instrumental Health. She's a musician, right?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: And, uh, so anyway, I grabbed the domain the next day, and then two years later we, we founded this program and we do it with, uh, with men in Addiction Recovery, with seniors. Uh, a lot of youth, uh, we're in classrooms. And it's very connection based.

It's empowerment, it's express. Because I wrote songs that said my quiet parts out loud, and I got the safety to say them on stage.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Under the guise of like, oh, it's a great song, hopefully. And, uh, I'm getting all this validation, but I'm speaking my truth. So that's kind of what we teach through that.

And then, uh, yeah, the classroom piece, uh, we support parents, caregivers. We do teacher learning development and, um, and we support the kids, like go in and, and connect with them in all ages. So there's, uh, there's a lot of facets. We're moving more into the online course development space now.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Which is exciting and it, it's accessible.

I partnered with two other knowledge experts, one in neurodiversity. And one in, uh, in DEI. So we formed a company called Median Solutions.

Kelly Kennedy: Yep.

Kristopher Marks: And Median is an acronym for mental health equity, diversity inclusion accessibility and neurodiversity. So it's training that's integrating all of those things.

Kelly Kennedy: Wow.

Kristopher Marks: So you don't have to silo all those conversations. But

Kelly Kennedy: yeah,

Kristopher Marks: the impact of diversity on someone's mental health and things like that. So, um, yeah, things are good. We're excited to, to continue growing and our team is growing and what a gift. It's, uh, I dunno, it's pleasure being here too. Like thanks for the privilege of conversation and the platform and I love what you do.

Like this is great.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, thank you.

Kristopher Marks: This one's a dream of mine too. I would love to podcast. We, I don't do my podcast as much anymore. I, I never monetized it. It was kind of a tool and

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Um, but I, I produce a couple for the Cross Cancer Institute and those are tools that they use in oncology, um, to connect patients with their doctors through conversation.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: But, um, yeah, all the things. I love it.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, it's um, it's been a journey man. It's been a, you know, by the time this show comes out, it'll been over three years of the bdp, which is pretty freaking cool. I did not,

Kristopher Marks: that's wild. Good for you.

Kelly Kennedy: I did not see that coming when I started talking to my wall in the basement.

Lemme tell you.

Kristopher Marks: That's awesome. Hey, I have this great picture in the corner of my bedroom. When I started VIV was my desk and it was about four feet wide by two feet deep tucked in the corner. And that was where VIV started. It looked little laptop and this microphone, this one right here?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah,

Kristopher Marks: same one.

And I was just talking to a wall. It's pretty cool. Couch cushion's.

Kelly Kennedy: Right? Right. And, and at the time you're thinking. Who in the world is gonna listen to this.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: And you think that for a while too?

Kristopher Marks: No. What a, what a journey. And it's, uh, it's cool to see where you've come to that we kind of started in the same era and, um, yeah, I could see how much you enjoyed your work and given people the opportunity to speak about what they love too.

So that, kudos to that. That's awesome.

Kelly Kennedy: It's cool. I've met so many incredible people. Like I I, that has been the best thing. Honestly, the best thing about having your own podcast is being able to connect with people that you would've just never crossed paths with and get to make these connections and have these conversations.

'cause they're a lot of fun. And I really enjoyed my time with you, Kris. I love the work you're doing by the way. You, you didn't really talk about it, but you're very, very active on social media and if people do wanna connect with you, they can do so over LinkedIn. Correct.

Kristopher Marks: LinkedIn's a great place. Uh, I treat it more like Facebook, I think.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: Candidly, uh, nobody's listening right. People take LinkedIn too seriously. So yeah, pictures of my dog once in a while I'd be like, ah, it's good for your mental health. I don't care. That's right. And people wanna work with people. That's what I discovered.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Kristopher Marks: So I don't have to be everybody's flavor, but you're gonna be somebody's, and if they see who you're, they trust you and they're like, I, whatever you do, like, I wanna be a part of it.

And that kind of business development has been really beneficial for me. So, uh, our Instagram is pretty, pretty lively. I put out the on TikTok too, and still on X occasionally, but, uh, kind of moved away from that platform. But LinkedIn would be the best way to connect and shoot me a message or follow whatever.

Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Perfect. Perfect. I, like I said, I'll have all the links. There'll be links to Vibe. There'll be links to your LinkedIn. You do events too. And I know you have an event coming up. Obviously it's not relevant by the time you're hearing this show, but

Kristopher Marks: it was great.

Kelly Kennedy: But you guys do, do, do do events and if they need to find events, they'll be available on your website and probably on your LinkedIn.

Kristopher Marks: Yeah. www.vivmentalhealth.com and, uh, always updating it. There's a resource page. There's, uh, ways to connect. You can see my calendar if you wanna book a Zoom or but all the information about all that stuff I spewed out earlier is on there. And we're always updating it on the banners, what we're up to and where I'm gonna be.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Awesome. And obviously we're in Canada, but we have like an international audience. Do you offer, uh, do you offer international services?

Kristopher Marks: Heck yeah. Yeah. We've had a couple great clients who were like multinational, uh, all the way from like the tip of South America to Europe. Uh, we had one company that I was doing a, a virtual training session for, I dunno, like 13 countries and it was awesome.

So we, we have no boundaries and. If you're, if you're overseas, if you're in Canada, like I'd love to work with you and connect with you. See, see where you're at and your people are at. And let's just talk. Yeah. The world is our oyster, my friend.

Kelly Kennedy: It is. It is. And you know, if you haven't already got it.

Kris is incredible. You're an absolute pleasure to chat with, to work with, and, uh. I don't think anyone could go wrong by choosing you to help them support their mental health initiatives. So thank you, Kris, for joining me today.

Kristopher Marks: Thank you. Hey, flattery, getsy everywhere with me, so I, I appreciate it, Kelly.

But thank, thanks for the opportunity as well. This was a lot of fun. You're, you're a good, you're a good chat.

Kelly Kennedy: Thank you very much. Until next time you've been listening to the Business Development Podcast, and we'll catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development.

Your Business Development Specialists lists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.