How to Redefine Success Without Losing Yourself with Jenn Bieri

How to Redefine Success Without Losing Yourself with Jenn Bieri

Kelly Kennedy: Welcome to episode 286 of the Business Development Podcast, and today I am joined by the incredible Jenn Bieri, a transformational coach, finance expert, and wellness advocate who helps leaders align authenticity with authority from scaling a global tech startup from 40 to 400 employees and raising 20 million in capital to guiding executives through burnout and back to balance.

Jenn's story is about courage. Clarity and redefining what real success looks like. Stick with us. You won't wanna miss this episode.

Intro: The Great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal, and we couldn't agree more.

This is the Business Development podcast based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. In broadcasting to the world, you'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business, brought to you by Capital Business Development capital bd.ca.

Let's do it. Welcome. To the Business Development Podcast, and now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy: Hello, welcome to episode 286 of the Business Development Podcast, and today it is my absolute pleasure to bring you Jenn Bieri. Jenn is a transformational coach, finance expert, and wellness advocate who empowers leaders to align authenticity with authority.

With over a decade of corporate experience as a CPA and operations leader, Jenn's career is marked by scaling a global tech startup from 40 to 400 employees, driving 20 million in capital raises and leading high impact initiatives that revolutionized business operations. Combining her business acumen with certifications in co coaching, human design and reiki, Jenn guides her clients towards meaningful sustainable growth.

In both their professional and personal lives, she is deeply committed to helping leaders explore paths that align with their values, purpose and ambition. Driven by a mission to redefine leadership, Jenn takes a holistic approach that blends strategy, mindfulness, and energy alignment. Whether facilitating career breakthroughs, building leadership confidence, or helping clients overcome limiting beliefs, she creates lasting impact with every interaction.

Jenn doesn't just help her clients rise, she equips them to thrive. Her work isn't just about success, it's about transformation, purpose, and living a life of bold impact and authenticity. Jenn, it is a honor to have you on the show today.

Jenn Bieri: Oh my gosh. That was so good. I'm like sitting there like, wow, that was, that was really good.

Honestly, it's such an honor to be here, Kelly. I'm so happy we're finally doing this and thanks for having me on the show.

Kelly Kennedy: It's, uh, super cool. We initially connected, you reached out to me when we both won a Peaks Emerging Leader Award in 2024.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, we did congrats to us.

Kelly Kennedy: That was pretty cool. That was definitely one of the highlights of 2024 for me.

Jenn Bieri: Oh man. Me too. Also 'cause like I love the peak. Uh, it's something that I've been getting into probably over the last year or two and I just love what they're doing. So yeah, that was such a big honor for me too.

Kelly Kennedy: Absolutely. Absolutely. And then, you know, when we initially made contact and had that conversation, I am such an advocate for wellness.

I know as like as a leader myself and I work with so many leaders, all of us are struggling. And it's so funny, we talked about this really briefly before the show today, but I think most of the time it's the leadership who needs like emotional support, not typically the people under them. Like obviously everybody does on a certain level, but I think people.

Just assume that the leadership has it all figured out that they're all good. And I think we just forget we're all people.

Jenn Bieri: Oh my God. A hundred percent. Like I laugh because honestly, like one of the things that I coach probably the most on is like, my clients come to me and they're like so I don't eat lunch.

I'm starving through the day. 'cause I'm going back to back from meeting to meeting.

Yeah. Yeah. Where it's

like, I don't work out. I really am not taking care of myself. Yeah. You know, and I laugh because it's like, not 'cause it's funny, but because it's such a universal problem that it's, it feels like, you know, the smarter we are and the, the more we're developing ourselves, the more we're also forgetting to take care of ourselves.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh my goodness. Like both those things. Check, check. My gosh, I've struggled with them both. Um, I dunno though. It, yeah, it's a tough one. I just, I think. I don't know what it is. I don't know why it is that I don't always make the time for those things. I think in my mind, like I'm just prioritizing the work.

I'm prioritizing the show. I'm prioritizing the growth. And obviously it's funny because you would think that we would always put our own health and our own, our own needs ahead of that. But I think as leaders we're so dedicated to the task or the mission that we're on that it, it tends to come first.

Jenn Bieri: Totally. It does. And I think it, it is a paradox, right? Because it's like, you know what I know is we're all aware that if we don't take care of ourself, that like, it's not like our success will not be sustainable because we're gonna reach burnout or some kind of illness or get sick or whatever. But at the same time, I think it's just like, I don't know if it's like the deep rooted conditioning as we were like raised and in society or like whatever it is, but it's just like, I think we all fundamentally have like the same limiting beliefs of like, we tire a value to how much we're producing, right?

Like I'm totally a checkbox ticker. Me too. Like if you gimme a list of things to do, I'm like, oh yeah, let me keep checking these off. You know? And I get a lot of pride from doing it. Yeah. And I think, because of that, it's like. You know, meditating, it's like, well, I have to be quiet for 10 minutes.

Like, that feels like a waste of time. You know how much I could do in 10 minutes?

Kelly Kennedy: Oh my goodness. No. Yeah. And, you know, and I'm horrible for that too. I did, I did try the meditating thing. It does work. I just, like, I, I struggled to keep with it, I think was kind of my, my struggle. I think my problem is, is that when I get up in the morning and if I have an extra hour that I can do something, it's like, okay, hold on.

I got this hour. I'm gonna be more productive. Like, it never comes back to be, oh, I'm gonna go sit in the hot tub, or I'm gonna go look after myself for, you know, this hour. Like that. Never, ever, ever is the thing, Jenn. And I don't know why, I don't know whether that's like my own programming, like you said, my, like my need to succeed, right?

Like, I've just, I've always like had this like hard work ethic and I, I don't think there's anything wrong with hard work. I don't think that, I don't, I don't, I don't think that anything big happens without a conceited effort, without somebody putting in some but you still have to make the time for yourself.

And I think as leaders, and I'm excited to talk with to you about this today, as leaders, we need tips on how we can do that better. But yeah, before we do. How the heck did you end up on this path? Who is, oh gosh, Jenn Bieri.

Jenn Bieri: This is always like the, I don't know, maybe like the awkward and also like the, uh, it's such a winded path that it's like kind of hard to describe sometimes because, you know, I started my career in finance and accounting.

Yeah. You know, like my first job out of school was at Grant Thornton as an auditor. And, uh, and so yeah, so I, you know, I built up a amazing career in finance. I ended up in accounting and, uh, I ended up in tech and I just. I love tech because I just find it like such an interesting field and I love that it's so future focused.

Yeah. And so I ended up with an opportunity to work at a startup in Toronto and it was like being on a rocket ship. Like it was moving fast, like in five years. It was like the amount of growth we had. Like it was a global company and uh, it was amazing. I eventually moved from accounting and finance into business operations.

Yes. And my role was really about like, how do we work better together? So like as we're growing and scaling and we're like in Australia and Singapore and Canada and the US and Wow. You know, lots of plans to keep expanding. You know how like in time zones where there's literally no overlap in working like in business hours.

Like how do you function in like that, and again, we weren't like, 2000 people company. Like it was still small. Like I think when we. At 40 people. We were already like Australia and Canada. So anyways, and that, that time zone alone is just crazy. Yeah. Um, and so, during then the pandemic happened and like, you know, that kind of like shifted everything for I think everyone.

And so I found myself spending a lot more time at home. And, um, my partner Dave was like, he'd always wanted to start a YouTube channel. And so he'd been bugging me like, Hey, can we do a YouTube channel? Like maybe you could teach yoga. 'cause he knew that, you know, when I, the funny thing is, is so September, 2011 sorry.

September in 2011, I started my job at Grant Thornton as an auditor, and I also went to my first yoga class. Wow. And so I always laugh because. That kind of feels like this marker point where it was like I started becoming two different people. Mm-hmm. Like there was this like super ambitious corporate Jenn as I call her, and just like, grinding, like super strong work ethic, like, you know, wants to get up the corporate ladder like as fast as possible.

Like there's this real clear ambition and then there's like yoga Jenn, it's like wanting to quit her job, like travel the world, like teach yoga, a little bit of a hippie, you know, kind of into some of the woo stuff. And so Dave, my partner, we've been together a really long time, and so he's like, Jenn, you've been saying you've wanted to do this forever, so like, let's start this YouTube channel.

And I'm like, are you kidding? I'm like, I'm like a professional. I can't go on YouTube and teach yoga and like bear naked. Like what? Yeah. And, um, anyway, we had nothing better to do, so we started the YouTube channel and um, that was kind of where I started getting a lot more into the wellness side.

Yeah.

And then that tech company was sold and, um. I kind of just took that as my sign that like, you know what I've always wanted to start my own business, and if I don't do it now, then when am I gonna do it? Yeah. Like, how much longer am I gonna wait? And so I kind of worked it out, quit my big corporate job and started building a yoga business.

And it was amazing. I took it off YouTube. I started doing it online and started teaching like some wellness programs and doing that kind of thing. And what I realize now is while I was going through that, I was completely burnt out.

Yeah. I don't think I fully realized like how much the pandemic had impacted me and like also just working on that pace in tech for so long.

And so part of it was like a bit of recovery and trying to navigate that. And then I think it was two years ago, I kind of hit a moment where I'm like, man, I really love the wellness side, but like I miss that pace. I miss the pace of it, solving complex problems like working with people and developing them and you know, just in that energy and that, and so I found coaching and lucky for me that kind of brought all the worlds together. And so I've just been building it up since then.

Kelly Kennedy: That is absolutely incredible. And I wanna kind of chat about obviously that leap to your own entrepreneurship because on the show, you know, we're always talking to young entrepreneurs, we're always talking to people who maybe haven't even taken that leap yet.

It's on their mind or they're, they're kind of finding this show as like maybe a space to help them take that jump. And I know for me it was really scary and I think for a lot of people they underestimate, the fear that goes along with taking your own work into your hands, right? Like, you know, there's something that feels safe about working for a company where it's just like, oh yeah, like I can work for them, but you know, if I get let go, I can just go find another job.

Alex: I think there's like this like fear that like, we can't do it ourselves. And yet, you know, starting my own company was the most empowering thing. None of this would've happened had I not made that like initial jump. And I'm so thankful that I was brave enough to do that at the time. But I also remember how scared I was and

Kelly Kennedy: I needed a kick in the butt.

So for me, what ended up happening was. My boss pulled me into my office. I'd worked at the company for 10 years and he goes, Kelly, like pandemic. We have no idea what this looks like. We literally can't even meet with people. At the time we were doing very much like, old school business development, dropping by companies, dropping by businesses, dropping brochures, whatever.

He's like, look, like, I don't know what happens. I wanna make sure you're okay. Maybe start making a plan for like what the next year might look like if you weren't here. So at least I got the heads up. My gosh, thank God. Yeah, yeah. Um, but at the time I'd been mulling it and that's the thing I thought about starting my own business development firm for a long time.

But you know what I mean? I never wanted to take that risk. It was like, it was like, well I have this like steady paycheck. I don't really gotta worry. It's great. It's a great paycheck. I don't really wanna like rock that boat. But you know, when I kind of got that kick in the, but I ended up getting the severance.

I launched capital and then actually what was really cool was that same employer hired me back, so gave me my boost. So I like, honestly, it's Engrity Inspection Services. I still to this day owe them, you know, owe, Selva Nadar, the owner of that company, you know, a great thank you. Uh, he did me a great service.

Jenn Bieri: Amazing.

Kelly Kennedy: And I don't think, like, I don't think companies realize sometimes how much service they can do to their employees by just being kind and doing something like that for them. But hundred

Jenn Bieri: I hundred percent agree.

Kelly Kennedy: But I, um, I needed that kick in the butt. But I'll tell you what, when I did do that kick in the butt and I did, you know, take it under, I was surprised at like, at how much I could step up to the plate.

Honestly, I surprised myself with my own ability to be able to look after myself, to start my own company. And, uh, the empowerment that comes with that is huge. But, um, yeah, you know, I always love to know. Talk to me about that because for you, honestly, you were in a much better space than even I was at that time.

I can't imagine what it must have been like to quit an incredible corporate job to go out and take that risk. Tell me about that.

Jenn Bieri: It was, I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this show, but like, it was scary as fuck.

You know, that's probably the only way to describe it because, you know, I had been feeling it a long time.

It was like a thought in my mind. But here's, you know, here's the thing is like my, so like Dave and I at that point, let me think. We've been together 11 years, so, and I quit almost three years ago. So we've been together like nine, nine years. No, I'm so bad at math, which is weird because I'm an accountant.

Um, so eight years.

Yeah.

And, um, so we've been together eight years at the time, you know, and he'd been supporting my career 'cause like, you know, we, the goal was I was gonna be a C-level executive, right? So like, I had that right from the get go. And so, you know, he was, he, he had been supporting me through that.

Like, I was working all night sometimes, you know, I was traveling all over the world sometimes, like, it was really intense. Yeah. And so, you know, the big payoff was gonna be for this, ex extremely expansive sea level role. And I had grown so much. And so that was sort of like the quote unquote plan that we were building.

Yeah.

So my biggest fear was, how the heck am I gonna tell Dave that I don't wanna do this anymore? Because like, he didn't sign up for me not doing that, you know, so like, what does that mean? And so it started with just a conversation with him to say, Hey, I think I wanna quit and I think I need to figure, figure something out because I really wanna start my own business.

And, uh, I mean, he was very shocked at first. You know, the first was like, oh my gosh, because, you know, I was the breadwinner, I was the stability. Uh, he works in construction, so sometimes there's periods where, you know, he, he'll, he'll be off for a few months and so. I was that consistency. And so it was like, okay, so like, okay, so how do we rethink this?

Like what? What are we gonna do then? Because we have a mortgage, we still have like all these things to do. So like how do we navigate that? Yeah. And so it took a couple conversations for us to kind of like work out the details and figure out like what was really important for him as I was making that shift.

And basically we worked out a dollar amount. He was like, look, he's like, you know what, he's like, I think we can make it work, but you know, you have to make sure you've got some kind of cash flow coming into the business or like into your life. Yeah. Because we can't do you not Yeah. Not having that.

Yeah.

And so I was like, okay, I hear you. And so then I was like, okay, so now we've got a plan, at least we're kind of like on the same page. And now I just have to figure out like, is this a part-time job? Is this, like, what is this? Do I get some contract work that I can lock in? Do I, maybe see if I can work part-time at my existing company?

You know, how do I start figuring out what my options are gonna be? Yeah. And so from there, I just started talking about it. And so I started, I told my parents about it. I told my the CEO of my company about it. Um, and so like, it was a long-winded plan. Like it was a few months before I actually put in my resignation because I wanted to make sure that we felt good about the plan.

And so what ended up happening is my dad's got a business and he was like, you know what? I'm in a pretty good position right now. I think I can help you guys out and I kind of want you to work for me anyways, so why don't you know, why don't you just come work with me?

Yeah.

Um, and that way you'll get ultimate flexibility of your time.

And I also had some other options, but honestly, that was probably the best one. Yeah. And so I just, I took a giant leap of faith and I just said, you know what? Worst case I can go back.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Okay. I always love to ask. So was your dad always an entrepreneur? Like your whole life? Yes.

Amazing. Okay. Okay. I find this every once in a while and I have to ask what kind of impact, 'cause you know what I mean? Obviously I want my boys to have like a good impact with me being an entrepreneur, right? Yeah. And I do kind of worry because honestly, I work really, really hard and I've like, honestly post coming about that today just because my boys literally, like I told you earlier, we've been sick all week.

This is my third show of the week. It's been a week. We've done some stuff. Sorry. Yeah. This is my third interview of the week, my fourth show of this week. Plus I've been fighting a flu. The whole family's just been fighting sickness and uh, my son comes up to me last night, I'm making a tea. He goes, dad.

Why do you work so hard? Yeah. And I just kind of had to sit down and say, because that's what it takes. You know, that's what it takes. Nothing will be handed to you and, you know, mean they're very privileged young men.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. I don't

Kelly Kennedy: want them to, I don't want them to grow up thinking that life will just be handed to them and that it's just easy.

Right. And I do kind of wonder because, I grew up, my dad had his own company, but he only ever worked for one company. So like for me it always just seemed like employment. He was just gone a lot. Right, right. But I always wanted to ask, you know, whenever I have somebody like you who grew up with their parent running their own company, what was your experience with that?

Was it a positive one? Did you, did you learn good work ethic? You know, what was that like?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. There's a duality in it, right? So like, I a hundred percent learned good work ethic. My dad is like the hardest worker I've ever met. Like, he's a machine. I don't even, like, he's 72 and he still works more hours than I do.

He's just on fire. Yeah. And so, you know, part of that is really inspiring. And the other thing is, is, you know, so my dad, uh, my dad works in the car industry. He actually owns a racetrack, which is kind of cool. Wow. That's super cool. Um, but, but what, what I've really realized, especially over the last few years is like, what's really neat about that is he always followed his passion.

Yeah. So he's someone who, you know, and he told me this actually while I was getting my CPA and I didn't hear it at the time but he was like, are you sure you wanna go that route? Like, that's not your passion. Like, that's, is that really what you wanna do? Mm-hmm. You know, and I took that as. Dad, I wanna be a professional.

You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Whereas like, I think for him it was just like, you know, his belief system has always been like, find your passion, work really hard at it and you'll make money. Yeah. But like, it does take effort, a lot of work ethic, you know, and it doesn't just happen like you have to make it happen.

And so, I feel like, I don't know that I would've taken this giant leap of faith had I not seen it modeled from my dad.

Yeah.

On the flip side of it, growing up like that, like Yeah. He, I mean. You know, like I remember sick days, I would go to my dad's office and I would be like, just sitting in his office, um, like there was no sick days at home.

Right? Yeah, yeah. Um, or you know, he he wasn't overly present at like coming to soccer games and coming to, you know, those kinds of things. Like, like a lot of, uh, parents are doing now for their kids. And so, you know, there was a lot of maybe like resentment built up between both my brother and I for a number of years around like, you know, why weren't you home more?

Why aren't you there for us more? You know, in that respect. So that was really hard. And also mm-hmm. It was really hard on my mom because she was almost like a single mom at the time. Um. So, you know, maybe with the information we have, you know, now maybe it would've been a little bit different for him.

But I think also that's kind of like what the times were like maybe before. So yeah, so there's like a bit of a duality in it. Like there's definitely some like emotional healing that has had to happen to kind of like, you know, but looking back on it now. I'm also so, incredibly proud of my dad.

Yeah. Because like, he has built, like what he's done for Canadian racing. Like he was entered into the Canadian Hall of Fame last year. Wow. You know, he's like, he's such a legacy in what he's built and done. And so it just, it makes me really proud to like, have him as my dad and to know like, he's went through some really, and I mean like really incredibly messy times with building that business.

Yeah. And

so I think just like seeing how many times he's alone had to rebuild himself, he's never filed for bankruptcy even though there's been, you know, financial stress and stuff like that to just like see how he can navigate it and he's so resilient. Yeah. Is like. I don't know. It's, it's, and he's so full of life.

That's the other part. Like he loves what he does. Yes. He's got so much purpose in him and he's so lit up all the time that it's like, when I grow up, I wanna be like that. You know?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. No, that's amazing. That's absolutely amazing. I know, you know, I, I have that same fear and it's funny because, you know, 99% of the work I do now is from home, but yet I'm still like working.

So there's still that like, lack of presence at times where I'm like, oh my gosh, am I, am I being a good dad here? Like, I do have that same struggle. And it's funny because I work from home and I can see them pretty much at any time. Yeah. But like for me to work effectively, I really have to just lock myself away and get it done right.

Totally. And so I do worry about that. I do worry sometimes about that, like lack of presence, you know, I do make the games, I do do all that stuff. But yeah, there's still that like question all the time where it's like, is work is my work ethic, or is the way I work. Going to have long-term negative impacts in my ability to be a good dad.

And I do worry about that.

Jenn Bieri: You know what, I think the fact that you even worry about that is an amazing sign. Right. Because that means that you're aware of it. Yeah. And so that means, and I think the other thing is, you know, I'm not a parent myself, but I see all my friends going through it. I don't think it's, I don't think there's a right and a wrong with it.

You know, one thing that I've really realized about my dad is something that I like. Sure. He's not perfect, and I definitely wouldn't say he is, but he's always there, you know, when I need him there, he, he picks up when, when I need him there, he'll drop everything and come like, I don't feel like I'm not important to him.

Mm-hmm. And

so to me, I'm like, you know what? Yeah. But I'd love to see him more. Of course. But. If the if he, if he's so happy doing what he's doing and he's like living his legacy and having an impact. And when I do call him, he's like always happy and having fun and like maybe that's an okay trade off.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Well I think the other side of it too, and the part that I kind that I find funny is that, you know, my, my boys are incredibly privileged young men. You know, we just bought a beautiful home. It's got a hot tub, it's got a big yard, it's a big house. And I, they don't understand, right?

Like they could care less where they grow up. That's the thing. And you don't really realize that. You always think like, oh, well I wanna give my kids the best life possible. I wanna get, and trust me, they're getting a much better upbringing than the one I had. My parents did the best they could. I'm doing the best I can and I hope one day they can do even better than me.

But I think the funny thing is, is that for a kid, they don't care. They don't understand how good they have it or how, how, how good they don't have it. What they understand is was my mom there, was my dad there when I needed them? Were they there? I, I think that that's like the universal incredible thing about kids is that they don't see success in money.

They don't see success in the house they live in or the things they have. I think they're all measuring, am I loved, am I cared about? Do my parents care? Right? Yeah.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. And so I think even under that, I think as long as you're showing them that you love them, that you care about them, and the time that you do spend with them is quality time.

I don't know. I'd say you're doing amazing.

Kelly Kennedy: I, I, I, I thank you for that. I think I have a lot of room to grow still. I don't know. It's hard. It's really hard. And I think that's why we're here to have this conversation today. And I really love having these conversations, the mental health conversations, the work-life balance conversations.

We're all struggling. And I'll tell you what, I don't, I'll speak for every leader out there. I don't care how much money you make, I don't care how big your company is. We are all still struggling with our own personal challenges, personal issues, mental health challenges, roadblocks, hitting walls, burnout, and I would say more so with the more successful, and you know what, they're just keeping quiet about it, but they are struggling inside. And I know I've struggled inside. We talked about this before the show where I said like, it was probably like a month ago and I told you had a big move coming up. We just bought a beautiful home and, uh.

I mean, I was working myself to the bone and I was just, tons of recordings, tons of like real work. I had, like, I had probably too much, I probably bit off more than I could chew at that time. And I was trying to just do it. And, uh, it was a Friday, like two o'clock and Shelby was in the room and I just looked at her.

I'm like, I have to get outta here. I don't know. I don't care where we go. I don't care what we do. I don't care. We ended up going to Saskatoon, by the way, because that's where her family is. I was like, let's just go. I don't care. Let's, we're gonna Saskatoon.

Jenn Bieri: Like, this is great.

Kelly Kennedy: I just need to get away. And you know, it's weird because you would think that I could just get off the recording, get off the production, and it be done, but I can't because I work from home.

And so what ends up happening is for me, when I hit that wall, when I hit that, like, I gotta get the hell outta here. I actually have to leave my house. My house isn't a safe place. My house isn't a good feeling place.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, of course. 'Cause again, 'cause it's like, I think when we were going to work it was a little bit easier, right?

Yeah. Because it's like when you're going to work, you have that transition time. So it's like, whether it's the little commute to the office or whatever, to just kind of like disconnect and be like, right, I'm home now. And so I think now that we're all working from home, it's like we do need to have like, like, you know, not to use a buzzword like boundaries, but, you know, we kind of do need like way better boundaries.

And, and honestly it's a lot of discipline, right? Of just saying like, you know, for me, for example, this is my office and like the work generally will happen in the office. And so like I purposely try to like, leave my laptop in the office. I close the door when I'm like leaving, you know? And sometimes I break my own rules.

'cause if I'm really inspired or excited about something, then yeah, I might pull it out. Yeah. But I do try to be really good about it where I'm like, okay, when I'm done, I gotta be done.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, I, um, I struggle with boundaries, don't we all? Uh, you know what's funny? What's funny was when I used to work at an office, it was actually incredible because home wasn't work.

I never worked at home, right? So it had this like amazing little differentiation where I could leave the office, get home, and literally not think about work. And to me, that was the best part about being an employee. When I look back at like, the best thing about working for a company was, was that I was much better able to just turn the, give a shit off.

Totally. And now I give a shit all the time. No matter where I'm at. I'm usually at the wrong time too.

Jenn Bieri: It's always at the wrong time, right? Because you'll probably get that like, sprinkle of inspiration or like, I've had that too, where you're like out doing something, you know, with your spouse or like for family or whatever, and you check and you get that like crazy email from your client and you're like, oh my gosh, I better respond to this asap or whatever.

And you just, it's tough.

Kelly Kennedy: You know what I've really struggled with Jenn, is presence. Presence. And, and this is where, this is where, you know, I mean, Shelby's completely right? She'll call me out a lot and you know, I'll be sitting at the table and she'll be like, you're here, but you're not, you're not here.

And it's like, she's absolutely right. Like my mind is on like, something that I need to do or like something that I didn't quite get done. And I think that's where I get, that's where I struggle, is if I have like a task that's like right there, right at the end, and it, it typically happens on this day, on Fridays.

Fridays are my hardest day. Uh, on Fridays I always have typically one to two recordings plus the show production for my Sunday. That's just and I'm an idiot. I probably should do it differently, but that's the way I've done it forever and it works for me or it doesn't work for me, whatever you wanna call it.

But that's the way I've done it. And, uh, it was a Friday afternoon and I was right there. I had like, I think I had like my post on up and I was just waiting for my videos to be finished and then I could be done, I could have as well scheduled and I could be done for the weekend. And she was mad.

Elizabeth: She wanted me to be done work and rightly so. It's Friday night, right? And, but I got up there and I, I, I reluctantly shut it down and I went up there. All I could think about the whole night was how I was just about done. And if I could just get downstairs and do that last 10 minutes, I'd be done. And ugh,

Kelly Kennedy: it's so frigging frustrating because it's my own, it's my own problem.

Do you know what I mean?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. Well it's hard too. 'cause you feel like no matter what, you're disappointing someone, you're either disappointing yourself Yeah. Or you're disappointing your loved one and both suck.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I kind of feel like too, like sure, like as an entrepreneur or as somebody who runs a podcast or whatever else, there's always something to do.

Like the reality is I could work 24 hours a day and not be done. Like it just, that is what it is. And I don't know what it is about like me, like, you know, man, I, I like to say that I'm like a high performance person. Like, I like to succeed. I hate failure. And I know like tech startup, fail fast, fail fun, whatever.

But I still hate failing. Don't we all? Don't we all. And so for me, I swear to God, I like, you know what I mean? I've succeeded more so just due to grit and determination in almost everything that I've done. And, and For right or for wrong. You know what I mean? I've talked to a lot of people who are like, you know, Kelly, you would've succeeded anyway if you would've just given the time.

Right? I think it was Tash Jeffries I was talking to, and she's like, you know, you'll succeed either way. It's just how fast you succeed. It's like, well, I wanna succeed as fast. As fast.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. Yeah. Well, because that's the ambition, right? Like there's like a certain like good hustle that comes with it.

Actually, I'm so curious what your human design is. I wonder if you're a man, you're either a Mangen or a Jenn, I bet.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just a crazy millennial,

but I don't know. You know, I guess at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I just wanna, I just wanna do something that matters and I think. The thing that really keeps me coming back, like the reality is this podcast, it doesn't make a fortune. Right. Like we do. All right. But it's a passion project because I love business development, I love entrepreneurship and I love doing these things, right?

Like this, this is never gonna make me a multi multimillionaire or a hundred millionaire, whatever, right? But it's something I love doing. And at this point too, we have so many worldwide listeners around the world, I know the impact that we have with this show. And so it isn't just about, it's so much bigger than me.

Do you know what I mean?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, yeah. Because it's also like your legacy. It's like a bit of legacy.

Kelly Kennedy: And, and I wanna make an impact and this is the way that I've been able to do it, right? And so, I dunno, it's tough. It's really hard to like balance that and everyday life. And I think a lot of leaders really struggle with that.

And I've been talking a lot, so I wanna just, you know, let you talk and I wanna know. Some of the leaders that you've been coaching, am I unique in this or is this something that like you're running into over and over and over again?

Jenn Bieri: Totally. This is such a common thread. So like, one, I don't wanna make you feel bad 'cause like you're not alone in it, but also like you're not alone in it.

Right. Because sometimes I think as leaders, uh, when we are struggling with these things, it's like you can feel like you're a lone shark. Like, oh my goodness, am I the only one who's struggling with this? Yeah. And the reality is, is like, I think all of us are, you know, I know before the show, we were talking a little bit about this too, is it's, I also think working is so different than it was 10 to 15 years ago.

You know, like I remember when talking to like people in audit, and that like, they were still, they weren't even using 20 years ago, they, they were doing everything pen to paper.

Yeah.

Right. So like our efficiency and our effectiveness with tech and all that stuff has just completely changed how fast we now work.

So just like our brains are consuming so much. Plus you add in social media and all these things we're like getting bombarded by information, like literally bombarded, whether it's notifications or articles or posts or, whatever, text messages. And then you like look at like, everything else going on in the world.

'cause it's like such a shit show.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's just like, there's so much disruption happening right now. And so it's just, I think everybody feels that. So it's, you know, just the pressure and the, the noise out there is really crazy. And so it's just, I think. I really do. I think all of us are actually struggling with this.

I think anyone that's a high performer that is like really trying to have an impact. And also like, you know, most of us also, not only do we wanna have an impact, we want fulfillment. You know? Yeah. We wanna have good relationships and we want to be healthy and we wanna, you know, have successful businesses and not have to struggle to put dinner on the table, you know, and raise our kids well and it's so funny 'cause like fundamentally, I think we all actually want the same things.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I agree. I, I don't know, it's just tough because it feels too like, with technology and everything's advancing so quickly that it just feels like there's a new task, there's something new to add to the plate all the time. Right? Like, you know, let's go back 20 years. You could start a company, just do that one thing.

And that would be good. Like you could, you could provide that one service and everyone would be happy. And you wouldn't have to do social media and you wouldn't have to really advertise a lot. You could do things like word of mouth for the most part. Like it was just a different world. And now you can have a really successful business or a really great product, but if you aren't great at using social media or at marketing that product, you're gonna really struggle to sell it.

So now not only do you have to be good at business, now you have to be like a salesperson. You have to be, you know, a social media personality. You have to start a podcast, you have to start a YouTube channel, you have to be on LinkedIn all the time. Like, it's just like, it's not enough to just be good at something.

You have to be good at something. And, and, and, and every year it's a new, and, and yet my time stays the same.

Jenn Bieri: That's right.

Kelly Kennedy: Like, the amount of time I can contribute is the exact same, even though the tasks are just building up and up and up and up and up.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Well, and it's true, right?

And like, not only just all the ones you said, then you talk about like tax regulations. You gotta make HST payments and corporate stuff. And like, even as an accountant I'm like, this is challenging. I'm like, I dunno how everyone else is dealing with this.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. It's it's been a lot, you know, you've seen, because over the past little bit I've been trying to be more personal, more authentic.

I wanna like, step back from ai, right? It's funny because, you know, when I started this show, I, I started out by saying, you know, in a time of AI and robots be human. And yet the further I went down this path, the more I started using AI to just help me streamline all of these thousand things that I have to do because I need to do it in a more compressed time.

But what end, what kind of ended up happening was, is that. You know, nothing stands out because AI is just so perfect. There's nothing human about it. And so, totally, it's funny because I did a post last week and I just, honestly, I just typed it all up by hand mistakes and all me and all. I am not an English major.

I am not great at grammar. I just start that out. And I just wrote it out and I said, hey look, ma No Hands, this post is completely written by Kelly Kennedy. No AI whatsoever. Here's some of the challenges I'm facing. Put a picture up with it. That got the most engagement, Jenn, that I've had since I launched this show.

That one. Wow. And it's crazy because to me, I think what it shows is like how much we're just craving real people.

Jenn Bieri: Hundred percent. A hundred percent. We're craving real people. And like, you know, the other thing that I would add to it is like, just from like an operations perspective, and like, this is something that I, I think is super important for business owners in general is it's like, you know, we try to do all the things, but often we don't have to do all the things.

Because again, it's like that one, like one post and better than all the other engagement, right? Yeah. So that one post probably drove more people potentially to your podcast and to the other work that you're doing than some of the other stuff. So it's like, you know, something that that's really on my mind lately is like, you know, here's a 10 task, but which one is actually gonna move the needle?

And as I'm doing this, it's like five fingers, it should be like this. But like, here's our 10 tasks. So like, again, which one is the one that's actually gonna move the needle? Or is this all just busy work?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And you know what? I think I've done a lot of busy work, especially in growing a podcast. And in all fairness, it's because God knows what works with growing a podcast.

If I had all the answers at this point, I would still have like the number one show in North America, and I don't, um, it's flipping hard. It's flipping hard. It's hard to understand. It's hard to understand what works, what doesn't work, why my numbers are up today, why they're down today, there is not a lot of good data in what works.

And so yeah, there's been a lot of tasks like, you know, for a long time I did like, probably like 30 group posts. Every single time that I posted, my a, a show or something on LinkedIn, I have no idea if it worked or not. But I did it and it like, for all I know, it could have done nothing.

Like you said, it could have had like no engagement at all, but you don't know what's working and what's not. And so you do everything.

Jenn Bieri: Totally. And sometimes there's an experimentation phase too, right? Where you kind of have to, because you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. So you're like, okay, I'm gonna just.

Throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and just see what's gonna actually stick.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. It's really hard too. And, you know, I, let's just talk about marketing for a second because, all businesses, small, medium, large, have limited marketing budgets, you know, they're trying mm-hmm. Most they can with limited budgets.

And, marketing unfortunately has just been this area that's really hard to know whether or not you're, you're actually getting results for your dollars spent or not. Yeah. And it's designed that way. It's designed very well to keep you really, like, oh, maybe it worked, maybe it didn't. Keep throwing money at it and see what happens.

Right. But it's really tough when you're working with limited budgets and trying to make an impact and figure out what works and what doesn't. You're right. You have to experiment, but I think we do end up in this place where we're like, I don't know what works. I'm just gonna keep doing everything I'm doing because I'm getting the result.

But yeah, I agree. It's, I just think it's really hard to figure out what those things are that we should be eliminating.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, so you know what, so one of the things, so like in, when I was working in tech, we used Scrum. So I'm like a huge fan actually of using Agile and Scrum, and I've been like exploring how do you use that in like a small business kind of thing.

Because Scrum teams tend to be like at least three people teams, which, like when you're a solopreneur, it's like you, yeah, you and you. Or maybe there's like, maybe you have like someone that works parttime, right? So. And so one of the things that I started doing that I find really helpful to figure out what works is to like, so every week, um, and so I've got a, a virtual assistant that I work with, and so we just do this together and we do everything together in terms of trying to figure this out.

Yeah. Which is like three simple questions. What's going really well, what didn't go so well, and what's like one thing that I wanna do differently next week?

Mm. Mm-hmm.

And so just like getting that laser focus because it's those small little steps that will add up into bigger changes versus like, well, I found it, I don't know if this is, this applies to you, but like I tend to, I'm like, I'm like, let me just burn it down and do it again.

You know, like instead of these micro changes, it's like I wanna to do it all at once. It's all or nothing, you know? And what I've learned is that really doesn't work. Yeah. But what does tend to work is if I just tweak it every little bit, like every week I tweak it slightly and a little bit more and a little bit more, and I get more and more clear.

And then it doesn't also feel like I've just created all this extra work for myself.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. I think for me, what I've kind of tried to do is just like, like you said, do like two weeks trying something, two weeks, trying something, two weeks, trying something and see what works. I think the challenge, especially with growing a media channel, a podcast, a YouTube channel, something like that, is that there's also peak times that your listeners will engage.

And so it's not just enough to like market. You need to market at the right times to actually get them right. Like, so I think for a show, more like what we're doing, probably like, you know, an early new year is when people are really thinking about how can I do better in business growth? Or 2025. 20.

Jenn Bieri: That's fair. Yeah. There's seasons for everything.

Kelly Kennedy: So like for instance, advertising the show in the summer probably isn't as effective as advertising the show in January. But once again, trial and error. And that can change too, which also gets very confusing and fun.

Jenn Bieri: Oh, it, it's hard and it's so hard to navigate when you're a solopreneur, right?

Yeah. Because you're just like, 'cause Yeah, me too. Like I had no idea that literally nobody would want coaching over the summer. Yeah. Which like, you know, when I think common sense I'm like, probably makes sense. I probably wouldn't want coaching in the summer either. 'cause like, you know, yeah.

Summer's the only beautiful time in Canada, so it's like everybody wants to be on vacation.

Yeah.

And then also same thing happens around Christmas, and so it becomes so hard because like, when you're, 'cause you're trying to like grow your business. Mm-hmm. And then also being like, oh, right. So I, I have to expect that I might not get any contracts during these periods.

So like, I'm gonna have to build that into, you know, how, how do I mitigate this? How do I figure that out? How do I build more consistency?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah, I agree completely. And I think too, like, you know, one of the ways that you can obviously do that is you can offer other services that are maybe like a little more longer term than a coaching, um, I know for us, for instance, we do training, we do coaching and we do business development retainers as needed from time to time. I'm doing a lot less retainers these days a lot more on the coaching and training. But, you know, I still take on the, the occasional retainer. Why? Because I actually love business development.

I still do. Like, I I, I don't wanna be completely removed from the thing that I love. I, but I still don't, I only take on like a handful of them.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. Well, hey, that's, and it's good too 'cause again, you're like continuing to refine and build those skills and, and.

Kelly Kennedy: Exactly. I think on a certain level you have to stay in at least a little bit in order to like, keep up to date, otherwise you just get left behind.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, totally. And then you become really out of touch. Right. Which we also see with a lot of leaders, like, 'cause if you're, if you're so out of touch, then it's like. And you're really not having that impact that you initially set out.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, no. And you know, I wanna talk a little bit about work life balance, and this comes up on the show all the time.

I'm not sure that I'm a believer. I've never found it. Although, I'll tell you what, I've talked with enough, high level expert people who have made millions of dollars, who say eventually they found it, but it was definitely hard work, grind and grit to get them there. Not to mention God knows how many lost relationships between their spouses, divorces kids, whatever.

Ugh. Yeah. It's been crazy. You know, I mean, there's always been a price. Yeah, it's kinda what I've seen, but ultimately, you know, I, I've had people come on and say, yeah, I found work-life balance. Like I work four hours a day now, Kelly, however, it took me 10 years and two divorces, and I have no relationship with my kid to get there.

Which is like kind of scary because when I kind of look at that, it's like, yeah, I want work life balance and I wanna be successful. How can I have both? Is it even possible to do that without blowing up my life?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. Is that a question?

Kelly Kennedy: No, it's just a, just like a que it's an internal question, right?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

Jenn Bieri: I, I, I think the question is yes, I definitely think you can do both. I think it's just, it's, there's a lot of intentionality that has to go behind it, right? So, as an example, so like, you know, Dave and I have been together 11 years. We've been through a ton of up and ups and downs together, you know.

But one of the things that we set on early in, because I knew that my ambition was pretty intense, was I said, Dave, you're, you're, I'm gonna put you first though.

So

my ambition, you come first. So if you tell me that I need to be somewhere and I'm telling you that I need to work, then I will. I'm gonna trust that you don't pull that card all the time.

But that when you need me there, that I, I'll be there. And so just I think, I think that will look really different for every person, but I think it's just about start like having those honest conversations with the people in your life that you really care about because you don't really know how they're feeling.

They might be totally fine with it and they might not. Mm-hmm. And I think we're like, you know, I see a lot of turmoil happen with families, especially with ambition, is because the ambition always takes the number one role.

Yeah. And so sometimes it does have to drop to number two or number three, or number four, just like, maybe not all the time.

Kelly Kennedy: Walk me through that because I can already see the pushback from your clients saying, right. And I know, however, like I've worked really hard to get here. I've put in a lot of time. I don't, I don't want to risk that. Yeah. And I can already do that. Being the, you know, the statement. Because I think to us it feels like, well, if I take a step back, I risk losing everything I've worked for Now.

Is that, now, I guess the question is that could be total bullshit. I, and it prob, and it might be like, it might be total bullshit. Like there might be, it might be that like, you know, when you've worked hard to get to a certain stage, you've worked hard to get there. No one can take that from you. You'll at least hold that.

But I don't know, I think it's always felt to me like if I was to step back, I would be lesser somehow.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. And you know what, like, this is where I, I really believe in like the subconscious reprogramming work and the limiting beliefs. Yeah. Because often that's really what it is, right. There's like some kind of a subconscious belief, even though logically we know these things don't necessarily make sense.

Yeah. But it's like subconsciously somewhere there might be something that says, if I'm not, if I'm not constantly putting my business in the number one spot, then I will lose it. Yeah. You know? And that might be what the belief is. And so what's happening is like, we're now like, so what happens at a subconscious level is if that's the belief that we have mm-hmm.

Then those are the actions that we take too, which means like, you're constantly firefighting for your business because you're like, if I even step away for three seconds, I could lose it.

Yeah.

You know? But like, I'm sure there's a bigger range between th three seconds and losing your business.

Yeah,

Kelly Kennedy: I know. I know, I know it, uh, it sounds crazy, but, you know, I mean, I, almost everybody that I've talked to on this show who's really like, I can tell that like we're all on that same like. Go, go, go, go wavelength. Yeah. Just, and you know, I'm proud of that. I think, I think there's a part of me that's always been proud that I've had a strong work ethic, from a kid.

My dad and my brothers always instilled, you know, work hard, be honest, do you know, do the right things show up. And I wouldn't be where I'm at today if I didn't do those things. However, yeah. It's like, how are those negatively impacting my life today? And I like, it could be pretty substantial.

Jenn Bieri: And you know what, and here's, here's the other thing. So like, you know, so, uh, Cove, Cove is, is one of the, is who I'm certified through, and I fricking love their model. So their whole thing is like, you know, values. So for example, one of your values is probably strong work ethic, right? Yeah. So, like, you know, and then, and then I think there's a strong value probably of integrity and maybe a strong value of excellence.

You just tell me if those are correct.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah, sounds right.

Jenn Bieri: And so probably what's happening, this to sound a little offside, they might be like little terrorists in a way. Yeah. You know, that's a val, those are values that have just gone like way, way, way outta whack. Yeah. And so then the other question is, is like what values are they stepping on?

'cause there's obviously something else. And so the question is, is how do we kind of, pull them back down to reality and maybe shine some of these other values a little more?

Kelly Kennedy: Oh man. I like, I'm, I'm probably like textbook workaholic.

Jenn Bieri: But yeah,

Kelly Kennedy: I've definitely found that like one of the challenges that I had is I think as I started growing my business, as everything kind of started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and, and I really started to love it.

Like, I really love what I do. I think being the other side of it, it's like I couldn't do this if I didn't love what I do. But I think like my love of what I do has almost superseded my love of like things I used to love.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Which, which can definitely cause some like shakeups like, because here's the thing, if the thing that I used to love doing, like let's say like when I was a kid, I used to love, you know, building model airplanes and flying model airplanes I know is nerdy, but that's my thing.

I love it. That's so cool. But if I, but if I'm, you know, I mean if I think now what I find is that if I was to sit down in my garage and start building a new model, I'm sure like there would just be this nagging thing at the back of my head that's like, this is a waste of time. Why don't you go and build your business?

Which is actually meaningful work. Right. I think that genuinely is one of the challenges that I struggle with now. Like for instance, like I used to love playing video games when I was a kid. I don't even play video games now. And it's weird because I always thought like, oh, I'll play a lot of games with my kids.

Like, that sounds awesome. Like I'll be that dad and I am not the dad. I thought I would be.

Jenn Bieri: I don't think anybody is, I don't think anybody is a parent. I think they're gonna be.

Kelly Kennedy: Be a very different parent. I'm actually, I think there's still times that I really surprise myself.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah I'm sure. And like, you know, I think really coming back to like even the model airplanes and like the things that you used to do.

Yeah. I think this is like, I think this is like a really sad reality of being an adult. Yeah. Is I think we just, everything has to be like, like productive, right? Like, it's like, okay. Like you don't just have fun anymore. Yeah. For the sake of just having fun, you know? So like, something even that I've been exploring over the last, uh, couple years is like, think like more creative stuff because I, what I do notice is when I actually take time to like, go for a walk and go in nature or paint or like sing.

Yeah. Or like, I don't know, do these like more like wooey, kinda like creative, kind of like artsy kind of things. I actually sometimes, like I'll be thinking, let's say I have a presentation that I need to do and I'm like, I don't know what to write in it. I don't know. And then I go for a walk and the whole, like, I just get the whole presentation like that and I'm like, I know exactly what I'm gonna do.

And so what I've noticed is sometimes it ends up being so much more efficient and so much more effective actually, because I gave myself that space to do those things. Yeah,

yeah.

Um, but I think again, we get so caught in the grind of just like check boxing and doing things and then, and then we're like, who the hell has time to sing?

Like, why would I do that?

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds exactly right. Right. And it sucks because like on a certain level, and I want to talk about freedom because. When I was a kid, my biggest value was freedom. I think as an adult, I still, one of my biggest values was freedom. My whole idea when I like went to work for myself was, oh, I'm gonna have so much more time to do the things I love.

And ironically that is not what happened at all. I work harder now for myself than I ever did for anyone else. I guess I also would more reward than I ever did for anyone else. So win-win. But in, in all fairness though I think I lost the freedom that I thought I was going to have, or like, somehow along the lines, think I kicked freedom down the down the road.

I think I thought, okay, right now I just have to work hard. If I work hard now I'm gonna build the company. I'm gonna build myself, I'm gonna build, you know, this, this brand. And then I'll have freedom. But I think the further that I go down this road, the more I realize it's just gonna keep growing and growing and growing.

And the demands from me are gonna keep growing and growing and growing

Jenn Bieri: bigger and bigger. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: I'm gonna let myself have that freedom. So I think you have to choose it. I don't. I agree. I don't think you get to just earn it. I think if you want freedom, you have to declare, I'm going to have freedom now.

Jenn Bieri: Hell yeah. And honestly, I would even say like, I think that's the case for all things, right? Like, it's like, if you want if you want a successful marriage, declare that. Like, then I want that. Like how are we gonna build this? You know? Obviously you don't know between two people. Things change.

Sure people change, but like, you know, commit that, like that's something that's really important to you. And so that, that's something that you, you're gonna commit and figure out like how, what does that even mean? Right? Yeah.

Yeah. And

like, same with freedom. Like, like even right now, like what does that even look like to you?

Yeah, like when you think of freedom, like how could you bake that more into where you are right now?

Kelly Kennedy: Well, and I think, like you said, it's like a mindset shift has to happen where I can value doing something that maybe is feeling like meaningless work or like meaning.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, a hundred percent.

Kelly Kennedy: I need to like, I need to get to a point where I can be okay again, with doing work that's just.

For fun. That's just.

Jenn Bieri: And you know what the other thing, you know, we haven't really touched on yet, but you know, one of the things too that I, I'd be thinking about is like the nervous system, right? So like what ends up happening when we're like so focused on the, the tasks and the doing and everything right?

Is like our, and also all the notifications coming in all the time. Yeah. Our nervous systems are so out of whack, right? So like chances are if I had to take a bet, you probably are stuck in like the sympathetic nervous system where it's like fight or flight. So it's like your body thinks it's like being attacked by tigers all the time.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I think, I think I probably have like a low level anxiety all the time now.

Jenn Bieri: Well, yeah. Right. And I, you know, I actually kind of think it's a bit of an epidemic going on where like, I think everybody's nervous system is a little outta whack. Yeah. And so that's the thing is like, as soon as you take that space to like move into the parasympathetic, so like the rest and digest, it's like you're like.

This feels really unsafe. Like, I can't just sit here, like, I need to go do something like this is really, really uncomfortable.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. I, it's been my struggle with meditating, honestly. As I've done, I'm like, okay, this is done. I'm gonna go do something now.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So like, a few years ago I did training on restorative yoga, and I did it because I knew how hard it was for me.

Like, like, what do you mean I have to lay there for 20 minutes? Like, are you kidding me? Like, I remember I'd lay there for like a minute and I'd be looking, I'm like, it's only been a minute. Like, this is insane.

Kelly Kennedy: No, I, it's so weird. It's, I wish that I could say, Jenn, this is when it happened. This is when everything shifted.

But it's been like this like slow shift for so long. And it's tough because on the one hand I recognize that like, I need to do more for me, I need to look after Kelly a little better. But on the other hand, I also feel like we have momentum with the business. We have momentum with the show, and I don't wanna risk any of that too.

And I'm having to like constantly grow, right? Like, I think, you know, we talked about this earlier. I think just like the shift feels so fast. The demands on an entrepreneur are, it's not enough to just like do what you do, even for a year. You need to be growing all the time because technology's changing.

Business is changing. Like hell, even my business isn't the same business, it was like two years ago, right? Like it's, it's shifting so fast and it kind of feels like if you are not, if you're not present, if you're not there, you're gonna miss the thing. You need to learn to take you to the next step. Like it's.

The demands are huge, I guess is kind of what I'm getting at here. Is that like, yeah. And like, you know, we talk about anxiety, like we were talking about this before the show. The next thing that I gotta work on is video. I'm working on it. Video scares me. Video is one of those things that like, I've put off and avoided like crazy.

I've had so many video experts on this show, Kelly, why don't you do more video? You're incredible on video. But it scares me like, sure. Incredible or not, whatever. It's still something that like, for me is super uncomfortable. And now, now I have to, now I have to add another thing to my low level anxiety.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, exactly. Like, oh my gosh, here's another thing I gotta learn. And now I'm like, yeah, exactly. And so like, there's a, there's a big mental load with, with constantly learning too. Right? And

Kelly Kennedy: I get that it's important because at the end of the day, it's like things are shifting and if you're not shifting with them, you're behind.

And if you're behind, you're in trouble. That's entrepreneurship, right? You gotta up date, right. It's, uh, it's a lot. It's a lot. I think it's never been easier to be an entrepreneur and never been harder to be an entrepreneur.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. It's both. It's totally both. Yeah. And you know, I, I think part of, you know, this is something that I've really recognized in myself where the, over the years is like, I think when we as high performers, like, and also it's just so apparent in our society is like we really do have the all or nothing thinking.

And we also are so, you know, scared of failing. So then we just don't even try. Right? Like, I can't tell you, like, especially when it came to like health and wellness, I remember I'd be like, okay, it's January and I'm gonna work out five days a week for an hour every day. And then I would do that for a week and then I would miss the first workout.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah.

Jenn Bieri: And then I would miss the second one. And then it's March and I've never been back to the gym, you know? Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: We, uh, we bought an elliptical last year and, uh, it collects dust.

Jenn Bieri: Right, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, something that I think is actually incredibly powerful though is to just like switch that dynamic and like, what does feel doable?

Maybe it's a minute. Yeah. What if you spent a minute, a day in silence? Just see what happens. Mm-hmm. And like, maybe, maybe the next month you try two minutes. Yeah. You know, like, these don't have to be crazy things, but it's like you also wanna give yourself a win because, you know, again, as achievers, we like to check that box.

And when we're not checking the box and we're failing ourself, then we just drop it off because we're like, oh, I can be successful in these other things. So I'm just gonna focus on that instead.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. Oh man. It's hard. It's tough. It's tough. And I know that there's a lot of people that are really into this conversation.

'cause it's a great conversation and I know it resonates with so many entrepreneurs listening and, uh, I know they're all saying, well, okay, but what's the answer? Like, how, what, how do we find a way out? And so, Jenn, I need you to bring me into it. Like, talk to me about your coaching program. What is it designed to do, who is it for?

Where do you do it?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, I mean a big piece of it is just like, I would say, just in general is it's, it's, you gotta just keep it's the experimenting. Figure out what is gonna work for you because what is gonna work for you might be different than others. And so, the way that I work with people, so if I'm doing individual coaching, I was saying to you earlier, this is where we get to be like a little more fluid, a little more expansive maybe, and a little more fun.

And so, you know, I do a lot of energy work. So like a lot of my clients, we do reiki, which is like, it's like, so on the scale of Woo, which, you know, as a finance person, I can't tell you that I ever thought this is gonna be part of my line of work. But anyway you know, 'cause it's, it's, uh, it's an ancient Japanese technique where basically I'm channeling energy, which sounds insane, but I tell you it works wonders.

And my clients love it. And I'm like okay, cool. And what that does is just helps clear your energy because part of it, you know, that I'm realizing is like a lot of us are so uns, like we're not self-aware enough to know we have high degrees of empathy. We have high degrees of personable skills.

We have like no self-awareness. We don't really know, like, how much energy on you is actually yours, how much is someone else's, which again, is kind of a weird conversation to have. But, but by starting to get more in tune with, like how does your energy function? Like how, like what lights you up?

What doesn't light you up? What is burning you out faster? You know, by starting to understand your energy better, you can start managing those things better because it serves with that awareness. Some of it is like subconscious reprogramming, which also is totally a bit woo, but I tell you, it's like, it's so, you see how fast it works and how, how good it is.

Because again, you're like getting into those really deep, deep, oh my gosh, I can't even speak. I'm so excited. Yeah, getting into these like really, really deep rooted subconscious beliefs that like logically we know, make no sense. Like, you know, I, I know logically it makes no sense that I put such a high degree of value on my productivity, but subconsciously it a hundred percent runs the show.

Yeah. And so, you know, by starting to be able to work through some of those subconscious beliefs, like the results are mind blowing. And then the other part of it is just, you know, it's building that accountability. So, you know, what most of my clients tell me is it's holding that space because when you have a coaching engagement, when you have a coach, you have that time in your calendar every other week or once a month or whatever it is that you do.

Yeah.

Just that alone allows you to really start focusing on your goals, whether they're your professional goals, whether they're your personal goals, and just like making sure that you are taking care of yourself. So I feel like I just went on such a huge tangent that hopefully everybody got. What I do.

But that's kind of the gist of it.

Kelly Kennedy: No, I agree. I agree. You know, it's nice to have somebody in your corner really, and that's what a coach is. There's somebody who like, yeah, your success is their problem too. And that's nice because as an entrepreneur, most of the time our success is only our problem and we're the only ones trying to figure it out.

So it's really, it's nice to have somebody, especially somebody like you who's had like incredible corporate experience. You've led a massive company. So to be able to like bring that down to earth and say, Hey, you can do this and you can be mentally okay too. How about that? Right? Like, I think this is it.

It does take somebody like you who's been on both sides, who has kind of had to deal with that big mental load and say, okay, look, you can do both. And, and I think especially for like an entrepreneur like myself who didn't really have a lot of models to go from, it was just go, go, go. Most of us don't go, go, go, go.

It was really nice for me to start to meet other people in high leadership roles to be able to say, Hey Kelly, like. What about this? Or like, have you thought about this? Are you okay? Like, first of off, are you okay? And I was like, no, I'm not. Okay.

Jenn Bieri: Like I'm not yeah.

Kelly Kennedy: Right. Like, but like you're always trying to be okay, right?

Like you want the world to think you're okay. But I think most people in leadership positions are like, no, like I am struggling.

Jenn Bieri: A hundred percent. Right. And I think also like that, that ebbs and flows, right? Because like sometimes you feel so on top of your game and then other times you just feel like you've just like.

You know, you start having questions like, am I gonna be successful again? Like, can I actually do this? Can I get myself out of this hole that somehow I found myself in? Yeah. You know, and so I think it's just, I think it's recognizing that it's all okay. And I really think this like conversation around figuring out this balance between ambition and sustainability is so important because like, the cost of it otherwise is like why we're working so hard for everything.

And the cost is your health. The cost is burnout, the cost is the relationships around you. Totally. Um, you know, again, all the things of why we did this in the first place.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And like, you know, I, I don't care how incredible of a leader you are, if your family life is falling apart, you are not gonna be okay.

Like, it, I, I think it's like, it's silly to think that they're different that your whole life and they're not, and your work life are, are completely independent. They are not. Whatever's happening at one is affecting the other.

Jenn Bieri: To, and this is, you know, this is something that like, I think the coaching space has been evolving as well of like, you know, really trying to educate that.

Like it is all one and the same. Like, you know, if you're having this issue at work, chances are it's bleeding into your life. Yeah. And vice versa, if you're having it at home, it's probably showing up somewhere in your work too.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. It's, uh, it's all intertwined and absolutely, we definitely need more people like yourself.

So take us into the practice space. What, talk to me about the name, the practice space.

Jenn Bieri: Yeah. So you know what, it started off, I was running this like energetic mastermind a few years ago and I just loved, I loved the name of the Mastermind and I love it because, you know, this is something that I've really realized over the last few years is like, you're just like, you, you don't.

Sure we all have like our natural gifts and some things come easier than others. But I truly believe everything is a practice. Every, every habit that you're building, every skill that you're building, it's a practice. And like, I think it's, uh, oh, I forget who said this, but the book Outliers, you know, they talk about the 10,000 hours to become an expert, and like that's how you get good at something.

And so the practice space is really about like creating a space for people so that they can practice, so that they can fail, that they can talk about the hard shit that they can, you know, work through those things. They can come back and fail again. Like all of it's okay because it's all part of the growth journey.

Kelly Kennedy: Yeah. And you mentioned that you do both one-on-one and group coaching. Is this, um, is this across Canada or strictly in Ontario for now?

Jenn Bieri: It's, it's so actually a lot. I have clients in Australia. I have clients in the US so like, you know, wherever, wherever, wherever people are, as long as we can make the time zone work in terms of, you know, one-on-one and stuff like that, I'll, I'll coach anybody anywhere as long as it's the right fit too, of course, for both of us.

But yeah, most of the stuff that I do is one-on-one. I am looking into doing some group stuff. I'm actually thinking about kicking off this, like, this future of work piece has been really on my mind. So I'm actually playing with, uh, with those, which we'll see, we'll see where that goes. Uh, so there might be some group stuff around that coming up.

Yeah, I run some leadership programs for some, uh, some of my corporate clients. And so yeah, I just, uh, my biggest thing is just really being, being able to show up with like, the crazy skills and, you know, learning that I like to do is just how can I be a partner? How can I be a support? How can I help people?

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing. Well, like Jenn, let me just say you have incredible energy. I imagine that all of your clients are incredibly fortunate people and, uh, and look forward to every session, you know. Um, how do people get ahold of you if they want to potentially book you for a session?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, I mean, the easiest way, honestly is email.

I'm pretty, pretty there all the time. Or like LinkedIn message, like, I'm so personable. Just message me. We can have a conversation. That tends to be the best way. I also have like for people, if let's say you're like on the fence, like you're kind of like, I just wanna know what you're up to. Like, I don't really know if I'm up to have a conversation quite yet, yet.

Um, I have a mailing list. So I started, uh, it's called the Leadership Lab. I put it out, it's a newsletter that I put out monthly and uh, I just try to conglomerate a bunch of different resources for people, different kinds of things. And so that's a great place to go to.

Kelly Kennedy: Amazing, amazing. And what is your email for them to reach out to you?

Jenn Bieri: Yeah, it's Jenn, Jenn. So there's two Ns in that@thepracticespace.co co.com. I've had that mix up before.

Kelly Kennedy: Okay. I'll make sure that I have your website as well linked in the show notes for the show so you can find it there. Jenn, this has been absolutely incredible. Thank you for coming on with me today.

Jenn Bieri: Thank you so much for having me.

This was so much fun. Kelly, I love your energy too. You are definitely having the impact in the world that you are wanting to, so I think we're so lucky that you have a podcast like this and that you're so willing to show up. And so just thank you for all the hard work that you put in to, to show up for us.

Kelly Kennedy: Oh, thank you. No, it's been, uh, it's been a blessing for sure, right? Like couldn't do a show like this without incredible people like you out there to do it with me. So thank you. Ah, thanks. Until next time. This has been episode 286 of the Business Development Podcast, and we'll catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020. His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.