Reinvent Yourself and Build a Brand People Remember with Jamar Jones

You know, I believe in God and I will tell you, you know, if you believe in God or if you just believe in the universe, some form, you know, external energy, right.

And back to the vehicle.

The thing is, you could go real fast in one direction in a vehicle, but God or the universe will course correct you.

Yes.

Whether you like it or not.

The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.

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Let's do it.

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to episode 342 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today, back by popular demand, it's my pleasure to welcome once again to our stage, Jamar Jones.

Let's go.

Whether you're meeting him for the first time or you caught our last conversation, buckle up because today will change the way you do business forever.

From rocking hip hop stages with icons like Snoop Dogg and Common to building Forever Media, a powerhouse branding agency trusted by Marcus Lemonis, Vayner X and Red Bull, Jamar has mastered turning stories into influence, connections and real results.

He's an author, national keynote speaker, and a master of building authentic networks that pay off.

Today we are going to dive deep into how to 10x your network and craft offers so magnetic they close themselves.

This isn't fluff.

This is your blueprint for building genuine relationships and creating opportunities that scale your business fast.

Get ready to take notes, take action, and level up in ways you didn't see coming.

Jamar, it's an absolute pleasure and honor to welcome you back to the show, man.

Dope intro.

Love it, man.

I'm happy to be back.

Dude, your energy is contagious and there's every time you meet some people, man, and you actually really connect with people and this is that.

So I'm so happy to be back on the show.

Hopefully we can give people a lot of value again and really help them grow their brand and their business.

I have to say, you are like one of my favorite people.

I absolutely love talking to you.

You're absolutely right.

Like it's funny because you're a Podcaster.

And you've interviewed a ton of people, and you're absolutely right.

There's just certain people who are just like, I really like that person.

Yeah.

And I left every conversation I had with you feeling that way.

And so, man, you're welcome back here anytime.

Anytime, any place, anywhere, if we can hang out.

I'm down.

I'm really excited about this show today.

I told you all week.

I've been.

I've been looking forward to this all week.

I think you provide so much value.

I think your podcast is incredible.

The work you do is incredible, and you provide value everywhere you go.

So we can't have a bad episode.

Dude, no, no, no, no, no.

We go get into it, man, and.

And really help awesome people today.

That's what it's all about, man, giving people a ton of value.

Yeah.

And helping out some people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, when we initially met, it was funny because the first time we were supposed to do a show together, we.

We got on here, and I was like, dude, I didn't know you had a book.

We can't do this right now.

So we had a great introduction, but then I went and I ordered your book, I read it, and we did the proper interview.

So the last interview we did was episode 222.

Change your circle, change your life.

The personal branding blueprint with Jamar Jones.

It is an incredible show.

If you.

If you were just coming to this one and this is the first one you were hearing with Jamar, you got to go back, listen to that, then come back to this one.

We had an incredible conversation.

We really dove deep into your book, your journey, your story, which is incredible.

And I do want to touch on it again briefly here, just for the people who maybe are finding you for the first time, they don't want to go back, which they should.

But, you know, people, your story.

Yeah.

Your story impacted me big.

You have, like, one of the most touching, incredible, heartwarming stories that I've read in a very, very long time, and it's so memorable, and it's so heartwarming.

Hurts.

It hurts.

It hurts.

Just.

Just get the book.

Listen, people, get the book.

Change your circle.

Change your life by Jamar Jones.

It will move you.

Yeah, it is incredible.

I'm so glad it moved you, man.

I mean, it's just.

It's really.

The book was built to help change anyone's life.

Yeah.

So personal or professional, of course, depending on the podcast, I. I focus in on.

On what those, you know, the audience really needs from it.

Yeah.

And So I think for your audience, yes, it's like a personal branding blueprint of really discovering your self awareness.

So how do you unlock your self awareness?

How do you look at your own current circle and say, hey, how did I get here?

Yeah.

And how do you assess and have an actual audit of your current circle?

And then how do you get into new ones?

How do you get into new circles, new relationships to unlock more opportunity?

And I really believe that if you can get into other circles and really hone in on your.

Your yourself and really know what you're working with currently, and if you know how to navigate and move around those spaces and get into these new circles like you can.

Anybody can change their life.

Yeah, it's.

It's actually, I think, statistically impossible for you not to change your life for good or for.

For worse.

Right.

I mean, I always say that, like, I hope that you use the book for good.

You could also use the book for evil, probably, depending on what's your go.

Yeah.

But, you know, I guarantee, I say, hey, the how to guide to change anyone's life.

I didn't say how that life would exactly change.

It will definitely change your life.

Yes, yes.

To put it back into Marvel superhero analogies, you can become a villain or a hero.

Yes.

Depending on your.

Which, which, which pill you swallow.

That's right.

Yeah.

I mean, it's.

But, you know, if you're using it for good, which I think most of your audience is probably gonna use it for good, it's really a map.

And also the book is action items.

It's.

It's real steps that you can literally do as you're reading the book, to implement right then and there to actually get the results right away.

So it's not one of those, like, philosophy books.

And then you're just kind of like sitting back, okay, how do I do this?

Yeah.

I'm walking you through stories, and I'm walking you through actual action.

Steps to take to actually get the results that you're looking for.

Your story is so touching because I think it's one for the moment.

Right.

Like, we're living in a time of a lot of change.

We're living in a time where reinvention isn't, you know, isn't the oddball thing that's happening.

It's literally the rule.

Right.

And you go through one of the craziest reinventions I think we have had on this show, period.

And, like, we've interviewed a lot of people, dude.

Like, you're like, at this point, like, I think We've interviewed over 170 people, and I think your reinvention stands out way above all the others.

Like, it's just so incredible.

You know, you were performing on stages with Snoop Dogg.

Like, you were doing crazy stuff, and then you tore your vocal cords.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

I. I always get choked up a little bit every time I talk about it, because, you know, music is my first passion.

Just the whole process, you know, developing the music, writing it, recording it, performing it, hearing the impact with the audience.

And so that was everything I poured my whole life into for about 11 years, was music.

And, you know, I had jobs and stuff in between, but that was the goal.

That was the mission.

Yeah.

And I was going at.

You know, I was doing about 100 shows a year, traveling around, opening up for T.I.

Snoop Dogg, Keisha Cole, Common, Bone Thugs in Harmony, Yellow Wolf.

I mean, all.

All different types of artists.

Right.

And I actually was on my own tour.

I did all the promotions, bookings.

I did everything myself.

And that's kind of.

We'll get into that, you know, conversation later.

But that's how I really realized that, man, I know how to do this.

Yeah, right.

You know, from a personal brand, which.

An artist is a personal brand, and.

But I was doing all the stuff I was doing that I didn't have no agent telling me what to do and how to do it and actually implementing it.

I was doing that.

Yeah.

And I built the team around with the dj, the emcee, the street team, everybody.

Right.

To help promote that.

And unfortunately, I tore my vocal cords performing at the University of Minnesota, and I was just going too hard, man.

I wasn't taking care of your number one instrument as a.

As a singer, performer.

And so, you know, it was a huge, you know, roadblock that I hit, and I had to figure out how to reinvent myself after that.

Of course, I was.

You know, I mean, it wasn't easy.

I was depressed for two and a half years trying to navigate and figure out what I wanted to do next.

And then I kind of stumbled into entrepreneurship.

Even though mute.

As a musician.

You are an entrepreneur.

It is.

Yeah.

You really are.

You know, I didn't call myself that, but, you know, I've been in this entrepreneurship game for a long time, since I was probably, what, 14, 15 years old.

But actually having the LLC and, you know, thinking of myself as a business is.

It's been a decade.

It's been a decade of doing it.

And that reinvention is.

Is critical to where you want to go.

And how you position yourself and how people view you, and that's how you're going to get the opportunities because your, how people perceive you, you and your brand is how they're going to talk about you in rooms that you're not in.

Yeah, I, I just see so many people right now who are going through the AI revolution.

Right.

Like heck, man.

Like we talked, what, let's call it eight months ago for the first time, nine months ago for the first time.

And even the change from then to now is absolutely incredible.

It's crazy.

I see people that are really, really scared, Jamar.

Right.

Like, they're afraid that their job is going to be gone and they have no idea who they are without that job.

We tie so much of our identity to either our companies, if we own companies, or to the jobs we do in the world.

And the people we help that, the moment that that gets flipped on its head, like you said, we just end up, we end up broken.

We end up broken and depressed.

Right.

And I wanted to just ask you a little bit and hopefully support some of the people who might be going through that transition right now.

You mentioned that you went through depression.

I can totally see that.

What was it like to rebuild yourself basically outside of the dream, outside of the person you'd built yourself to be?

Yeah, well, it was terrible in the beginning, I'm gonna be honest.

It was terrible.

A lot of nights and, and just lost, you know, like you're, when you tie yourself to something like that, especially if people are, are, are have an occupation, they tie themselves to their work.

I, I, I learned the hard way that you can't do that.

You need to tie yourself to a mission.

What is your purpose?

And then you have other things that support you in your purpose.

So as I was going through the self discovery, I, I asked myself, like, what was the ultimate goal with music?

You know, like, what I want to do?

And then I'm like, man, I want to have an impact while I'm on this earth.

Okay, let's, let's analyze and discover what impact means.

And then I start to unpack that for myself.

Okay, well, what do I want to do?

Who do I want to reach?

What kind of impact do I want to make?

And then I came down to the conclusion that I can get the same result that I could get with music in different avenues.

And that's the thing.

So when you're working at an occupation, you're working at your job, and it's becomes your identity, it's still not fulfilling enough.

Because you don't have a mission or purpose.

But if you have a purpose behind it now, you can go anywhere.

Right.

And you can go in other vehicles to be able to live in your purpose, in the mission that you want to do.

So you feel actually fulfilled in what you're doing.

So, yes, there's things like that music just can't touch, you know, with other things like entrepreneurship.

Yes, you get highs, you get the lows, you get all that.

But man, there's nothing like.

I bet.

I can't imagine.

Yeah.

I mean, the biggest crowd I performed in front of, I think was around 8, 8, 9,000 people.

And that's when I opened up for T.I.

Yeah.

Crowd.

I mean, you couldn't see the back.

Wow.

And there's just nothing like it.

And then there was this one moment where we kind of kept singing this chorus and like the whole crowd kept, you know, by the end of the song, they got that chorus.

Yeah.

Oh my God.

The feeling is impeccable.

But I would say that and I.

And I do keynote speaking and it still, it still ain't the same, you know?

Right.

You have a big crowd.

But I'll say that the vehicle that I'm in now, I get little elements of that fulfillment, but the goal and the purpose I'm still doing till this day.

And so I want everybody to know that don't attach yourself to things that are not going to ultimately serve you.

In the end, you have to really dig deep and discover your purpose.

And to do that, you have to unlock your self awareness.

And that's why I always start with clarity and getting really clear on who you are.

And you have to go deep before you can go outward.

I love that you touched on the vehicle because I don't know about you and your company, although I imagine that it's very similar to mine.

I'm nothing like the company I started.

Right.

Like, it has changed since so much in.

In five short years that even though I still have aspects of what I did in the beginning, it's completely different.

And what it was, was the vehicle kept changing, the opportunity vehicle kept changing.

But the goal to educate and inspire and build entrepreneurs and build businesses stayed the same.

Stayed the same.

So even though the.

The ways that I do that have changed now, we do that through, you know, group coaching one to ones.

We do it through the Catalyst Club.

Like we're using different vehicles to achieve, frankly, better results than I could in the beginning.

But at the same time, I couldn't have seen that those opportunity vehicles came over Time.

They weren't available to me in the beginning.

Right.

And so I think you're right.

It's like, if we go into something super shortsighted and say, this is the way I'm doing it, life inevitably is going to make that vehicle obsolete.

So you have to tie it to, like you said, a dream, a purpose, a mission, which you can change vehicles.

Maybe you can make a greater impact as those vehicles evolve.

You know, I believe in God.

And I will tell you, you know, if you believe in God or if you just believe in the universe, some form, you know, external energy.

Yes.

Right.

And back to the vehicle.

The thing is, you could go real fast in one direction in a vehicle, but God or the universe will course correct you.

Yes.

Whether you like it or not.

Like, they will.

Literally something will happen.

You're like, why is this happening to me?

And that has happened many times.

I'm sure a lot of people can relate to that, where you're like, hey, I thought I was supposed to be doing this.

And I think even with the example you.

You just said where you had a course correction, something, some friction happened, something happened where.

Or maybe you discovered something about yourself and said, man, I'm really good at helping people and coaching people, and people look to me for advice.

I keep getting asked the same question over and over and over again.

Maybe my purpose is over here, inspiring and helping and guiding instead of what the other thing that you were doing.

So it's also about self discovery, which once again, is unlocking that self awareness.

And the more self aware you are, you can be like, okay, I'm seeing the signs.

I'm seeing the roadblocks that I go.

All of a sudden you change lanes and you're like, why is this road so easy?

Yeah, it's.

It's because you're finally living in that purpose and in the right lane.

I love that you touched on that.

And the reason is, is that I had never experienced teaching before Jamar.

And so what ended up happening was obviously the podcast took off and we started.

We started having people say, hey, you know, like, we listen to every single week.

We're getting a ton of value from this.

Would you be willing to coach me?

Would you be willing to teach me what you're teaching on the show, but in a more dedicated way?

Right.

And then I did like two or three of those, and I'm like, dude, this is it.

This is it.

This is the thing I was meant to do.

Like, I found so much purpose and passion in it.

But once again, I did not know that in the beginning.

Right.

I couldn't have known that until the opportunity presented it.

So, like so much of your purpose is found.

Yes.

Yeah.

And that's, that's fantastic that you just said that because the other thing.

So we're talking about being in the vehicle.

There's a bunch of people that are probably listening that haven't even got in the car yet.

The doors are still locked.

They're like waiting for someone to hit the beeper.

They have been stare.

They've been, they've been in the car a lot for so long trying to find the right vehicle.

Like they're going, going in.

They haven't quite test drive it yet, but they're kind of behind the wheel.

They're like, oh, I don't know.

And then they get out the car, they go into a door.

They are not even driving yet, Kelly.

Yeah, they ain't even driving.

And so the other thing I tell people, you got to just start.

You, you have to just try.

And you're not going to get any momentum, any movement on anything that you're doing unless you try.

And I know people hear this day in and day out, but the reason why people are hearing this so much from people that are what they deem as further ahead in life is because the, the difference between that person and you is that that person started.

Yes.

And you haven't started yet.

And that's why people keep saying, like, you just got to get out your own head.

It's not going to be perfect and just have to start.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you're going to learn so much through the process and you're also going to have that self discovery to navigate to really pinpoint what direction you really should be going, going for in the first place.

I've Learned more In 5 years of entrepreneurship than I think I did in the previous 20.

Mm.

And that was it.

Right.

Is before I was coasting and when I became an entrepreneur, I started driving.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

And it's amazing how far.

And you know, I mean, you can speak to this as well because, you know, Forever media is what, 11 years old at this point?

10 Years.

10 Years.

10 Years.

Yeah.

Decades.

So you can speak to that as well.

I imagine that in your journey you've learned metric tons in that 10 years.

It's, it's amazing.

Like you said, once you stop coasting, you get in the driver's seat and you just start taking baby steps to, in any direction, how much you learn and how much the world teaches you.

Because it's like, I didn't have doors open for me until I became an entrepreneur.

And once I became an entrepreneur, I realized that the doors open for people willing to walk through them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're looking.

Yeah.

You know, I think I just put out a post the other day that.

Because there's something that just that happened that day.

And I usually just post whatever's on my mind.

And, you know, I'm looking for opportunities every single day.

Yeah.

And people, Other people are waiting for opportunities.

There's a very big difference between the two.

If you're sitting around waiting for everything to be so perfect for you to make a move, you will have little to no movement and into getting to achieving your dream.

But you're waiting for this thing to be so perfect for you to be able to do something.

And I'm not waiting.

I'm looking for it.

And to what you just said of.

Of you're also looking for those doors.

And then once you see those doors, you're like, okay, how can I step through this door?

There's a little crack.

How can I open this thing up a little bit more to be able to actually go through the door?

And that's the other piece of it.

That's why we're saying that you have to actually start trying and then looking for opportunities.

And then you have to.

Sometime the door may crack, but you have to open that thing up and actually step through it.

Yeah.

People are not going to grab your hand and walk you through the door every single time.

I just.

It fascinates me on how many people are waiting.

And then they're like, woe is me.

And.

And the world sucks.

And the.

The world's against me.

My business isn't growing.

Oh, I'm not getting any leads.

I'm like, okay, well, how.

How often are you reaching out?

I talk to maybe, like four people a month.

Oh, okay.

So you're not even looking.

Yes.

You're just waiting for people to send you a message blindly and be like, hey, I'm interested.

But you're not active.

You're not going after it.

You're not getting reps. You're not trying to get your name out and have a lot more conversations for a lot more opportunity to actually step through the door.

So the amount of people waiting is.

It outweighs the people actually looking.

Yeah.

You've built an absolutely incredible, incredible brand with Forever Media.

I love your website.

I love watching your podcast stuff come out.

Like, everything you do is very exceptional, by the way.

And That's a massive compliment.

I wish.

Well, man, shoot.

I mean, dude, that your comms and just a lot of what you do also, even on the social media side, I mean, I've been taking notes, man.

I even told my business manager, I'm like, yo, this is guy named Kelly Kennedy that you gotta like, if you see things that he's doing, like that we could be doing.

Well, that's good because apparently we're referring to each other, so that's a good thing.

I'm like, dude, I'm like, oh, you know, you get a certain email or you see like a post.

I'm like, look how he's tagging everybody.

I'm like, okay, I like that because that's.

He's changing his circle constantly, but he's also getting visibility.

Well on that, which is.

Is fantastic.

And it's just been trial by fire, man.

Like, I, I don't have that big marketing background.

It's been learned.

Like, I didn't know until I started the bdp.

And then it was like, okay, what's working?

What doesn't work?

Okay, LinkedIn's changing the rules all the time.

Like, how many people can I tag or what can I do here?

Right?

Like, I. Oh, it's a hustle all the time by, like, absolutely right.

But I've learned a lot on that way.

But I see kind of the stuff you've done.

I see the way that you've built your company and you've done an exceptional job.

And my thought here is, I want to maybe insight some of our listeners.

Can you walk us through the brand building that you had to go through for Forever Media to get it to a point where someone like Vayner X is like, interested?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's a lot.

There's a lot to that.

And I always call it monetizable brand positioning.

And this is something that we're really trying to focus in on and coin.

But to get brands like that interested in building your brand, I mean, does take a little bit of time, but it's how you're positioning yourself.

And so sometimes your data and metrics, you may not have that to really back up.

Like, for instance, you know, if somebody has a million followers, so you just see the.

You see that metric right there on their page, you immediately already put them on a pedestal of, oh, man, I gotta talk.

Talk to them.

You might not even know if they could do what they say they could do.

You know, you might not even know if they even have a real business.

I just in transparency.

I've been blessed enough to connect and, and have a lot of influencers in my circle and there are some that they have massive followings, but they, their businesses.

Yeah, it ain't cracking as what they put out.

Love that.

You know, so, yeah, so it's, it's a, there, there's, there's ways on how you have to position yourself to attract those type of brands and, and influencers and, or people of influence to your business to be able to do things with you.

And it's about how you're setting yourself up.

So one is like you have to look at what is your story.

What, what, how can you articulate your story in the most simplistic way to another individual?

And also if somebody comes in contact with you in any shape, way, you know, or capacity where, what are they seeing for the first time?

Right.

That's really important to me.

So if, if I meet somebody, a networking event like you just said, the website.

So if I meet somebody in a networking event and I give them my email and I give them my card or contact information, what's the first thing they're going to look at?

They're going to look at your social media page, they're going to look at your website.

Yeah.

Or maybe if that stuff ain't cracking for you, you need to put your own thing together and say, hey, I'm going to send you a media sheet about me.

Yeah, a deck that's about me.

You know, you need to control your own narrative and if you don't have the data or the numbers and things to back it up, you better do a good job of telling the story of why you matter, why your business matters.

Why should they be interested in you when you want to, when you want to actually book a meeting with that person, why should they want to book that meeting?

You have to give people reasons.

And I, I'm a visual guy.

That's why our website is looks the way it does is because I'm very visual but I like to show people things.

So if you don't necessarily have all the data, the numbers or the sales or the track record quite yet in your business, you need to do a good job of telling the story and the transformation or the things that you have done in your life, and I'm talking about your entire life and we do this thing where anybody we work with, we always go through an audit of their entire life.

We don't just look at what you did in the past three months.

Yeah.

We're adding things as a Totality.

And then those numbers and those data and that and that stats looks a lot better and when you represent it that way than it does for the past couple months that you're thinking about.

And it's all about how you position that.

And if, if that person sees that and it says, yo, I didn't know you worked with that many clients.

Oh, I didn't know you did that many podcast appearances.

Oh, these are the top three guests that you had.

Oh, my God, that's incredible.

Yeah.

Um.

Oh, I didn't know you spoke on that many stages.

Oh, these are the top three biggest brands you've worked with.

Oh, that's incredible.

You know, or here's the best.

The top three testimonials of all time that you've worked with.

Here they are.

And people can see that, like, these are the things that you can easily hand off to somebody else.

And then they're like, okay, let's get a meeting with Kelly.

Yeah, let's.

Let's do this.

You know, and then they show up on that call more prepped and prepared to listen and actively listen.

And then of course, there's other steps after that to be able to change your circle and to be able to get opportunities and provide value, but that at least gets your foot in the door.

Yeah.

And I think the ability to showcase all of you wherever possible is really important too.

Right?

Like, a picture can only tell so much of a story.

Words can only tell so much of a story.

Right.

Like, if you're willing to put yourself out there and dude, I've struggled with video.

I'm not going to lie.

I talk about this a lot because obviously as I'm going further and further down this path, I'm having to do much more video.

You got better.

I remember you're like, this is my first video.

Oh, my goodness.

I know, right?

And that was only like a year ago.

Like, it wasn't even that long ago where I was like, okay, like, I'm doing this thing, guys.

Right?

Like, and it's funny because people think, well, you have a podcast, you have hundreds of episodes, like, you must be great on video.

It's like, nope.

Because it's a very different.

Like, this is awesome.

I love this, but I feel this to be like such a non pressure video.

Right?

Like clips from the show, whatever.

Right.

Like, they're great, but it's just a conversation.

But it's also a conversation which is different.

Like, me, I can feed off you.

You can feed off me.

When you're picking up that phone and you're shooting yourself.

It's like everything just goes out the window.

It's like, what the hell am I saying?

What am I talking about?

Why am I saying this at all?

I'm not gonna do it,.

Right.

So funny, because I'm still struggling with this all the time.

Sometimes I shoot it and literally, dude, I'm recording multiple times.

Because on my phone, I don't really.

I don't like the whole, like, pain in the ass of, like, uploading it to my computer, running through descript, whatever.

So, like, I like.

So it's like, okay, it's easier just to shoot the damn video three times and hopefully not mushmouth than it is to edit the damn thing.

Yeah, get the one take.

You just post it, man.

But the point is, is I under.

The reason I put myself through this hell is that I realize the value of people hearing my voice, seeing my facial expression, seeing the smile there.

You're actually conveying who you are, and that's what people care about.

Yeah, they.

I. I just heard a podcast that.

That I just watch is the Social Proof podcast.

David Shands, He's a really dope guy.

He's on my hit list, actually, to.

To meet amazing.

I always.

I always have this, like, hit list of people I'm going after next.

So we go, we gonna make that happen.

But.

And he just interviewed Brad Lee, and he said this one line, which I was like, oh, man, am I doing that?

He said, you gotta to build a personal brand, you need to flood the.

Flood the Internet with your face.

And I was like, hmm, I'm probably doing that a little bit, but I'm not flooding it.

And it changed my thought process on, like, okay, how much am I actually doing?

And then we just had a podcast with.

With Hala Taha, which is coming out very soon.

It'll probably be out by the time this comes out.

And she's like.

She's built up her podcast.

Crazy.

Yeah, I mean, crazy big guests.

And.

And she said, I'm like, how did you get these guests?

You know, like, just these monster guests.

And she said.

She literally was like, we're sending out thousands and thousands of email emails to these people to pitch them to come onto our show.

And then it got me thinking, how much am I actually doing, you know, to get these guests?

Oh, if I'm doing a 50 or a couple hundred, she's doing thousand.

It's just all about that.

Like, it's just activating that muscle of, like, how much do you actually need to get make things happen for you.

Yeah.

And I think that's the other thing is like with your personal brand, if you're just struggling to do a couple things here and there where you're like, I post one time a week and, you know, like, I don't really.

I'd send out one email every six months.

And like, you're not really letting people know what you got going on.

So you don't have a personal brand.

Yeah.

You don't have something where people are least getting updated and looking at like, hey, what does Kelly got going on?

But the more you flood the Internet with your information because we're all busy, you think that your one post is going out to your whole audience is not.

Yeah, it's going out to like, like 1%.

That's right.

Of your audience.

That's right.

So you need to post a lot more and, and just have that.

I understand that there's a.

You got to build that up gradually.

And not everybody can be doing, you know, thousands of pieces of content every single month.

That's really hard to do.

But most people are not even doing like a couple, you know, so it just helps you see that discrepancy and what, at the highest level, what people are doing and then you're worried about your, your one to three posts.

Yeah, I, I love that you said this because I've had people tell me, well, with social content, Kelly, less is more.

And I'm like, no, with social content, more is more.

No, more.

As much as you can humanly put out there.

That is what I advocate for and I get it.

You're absolutely right.

Like, not all of us can do that, but you would be surprised, like, how much content you can create.

I challenge anybody out there to record a 10 or 15 minute video and create yourself 10 or 15 minute, minute and a half long clips.

Right.

Like, it's not as hard if you understand that there's tools available to help you.

Yeah, yeah.

Tons of tools out there.

Opus clips.

There's tons of AI to, you know, tools out there that can take a whole video and be able to give you the clips, puts the captions on there, does all the fancy things.

All you got to do is just download it and then upload it onto the platforms and then there's platforms for schedulers and all that kind of stuff too.

So I, I think the excuses, you don't really have too many real excuses that are practical.

Like nowadays, it's just about intentionality.

Like, are you, are you doing it or not?

Well, it's kind of cool because you were doing it before.

It was cool.

I mean, I was poor.

I was.

I just.

As a music artist, that's just what you do.

You promote yourself.

Right.

You just pump it out like constantly.

And we're actually working on something currently where I'm like telling my team, like, I want to do more.

I want to go at least three reels a day.

Yeah.

And just I'm really.

That is one thing that I'm like, we gotta up our game.

Even me, like, I gotta up my game on.

Because you hear what Gary Vee or Alex Hormozi or what these.

How much content they're putting out.

Yeah.

Grant Cardone, you see what, how much content they're putting.

I understand they have full teams and all this other stuff, but I'm like, man, we need to strive for that, to flood the Internet because just think about how much traction that can go and then you have something selling for you, you have something pitching for you at all times.

While I'm sleeping in my Snuggie, man.

Yeah.

It's funny because me and one of my really close mentors yesterday were having a deep conversation on marketing and what I said to him, I kind of came to a bit of an epiphany and I'd love your opinion on this, but I was just thinking I'm the worst person to sell myself.

Like, I'm too invested in me.

Anything that I say about my business, my brand, my podcast, my coaching, my club.

Yeah, of course I'm gonna say that.

It's me.

I care about it.

I. I want it to be successful.

Right.

And what we kind of came to as an idea was, and if you.

And we can use those examples, you know, the Grant Cardone's of the world, the Gary Vees, other people share their stuff viral everywhere.

Right.

It's not them.

Sure.

They put it out there them alone.

No matter how much money they throw at it, they can't move it.

They need people to get behind them and say, yeah, me too, let's.

That's awesome.

I'm going to share that.

Right.

That's.

I think what we have to strive for.

We have to make such an impact that other people want to talk about you.

Yeah.

You're spot on.

You're absolutely spot on.

And so in the music world, we call that co signing.

Okay.

You know, if you want to.

And also we call that collabs.

So like a podcast is essentially a collaboration.

Absolutely.

Of two different brands.

Right.

Coming together and.

And that person on your platform.

Is now saying, hey, I rock with Kelly.

Yeah.

You know, because you.

They decided to hop on your platform, so they're, they're giving the green light that, hey, this is a dope platform that people should care about.

So I think that you're a hundred percent right.

And that's why I often tell people like to build thought leadership, to build authority in your industry.

Sometimes the easiest way to do that is to start a podcast.

Yeah.

You know, because you're able to bring people on.

And it's not just you saying like, hey, this is cool, this is cool.

It's cool.

You have other people saying that too.

And the other thing is like in getting co signs, you know, so getting other individuals to say that, hey, I rock with Kelly, you know, or I rock with Jamar.

Yeah.

And people can do that through podcasts, you could do that through events is a great way to do that.

You could do that through client testimonials.

So if you have clients that you're working with, like, showcase those testimonials where there's their rants and raving your name.

Yes.

So you're not the only one shouting from the rooftops, hey, look at what I got going on.

Another way is, is to simply just do, like, lives together.

Yes.

You could do an Instagram live, you could do a Facebook live, you could do an LinkedIn live.

Just have those lives together where you're having a conversation with another individual.

And then somewhere in the conversation, if you can get them to kind of say like, yeah, like, hey, man, this is awesome.

Like, I love what you're doing.

Take that clip and then be able to post that.

So there are ways to, to get those co signers in your business a collaborative post as well.

Like, you can get, you know, two different people, like your page on.

On Instagram and you can get somebody else and do a collaborative post that we're getting out to a broader audience.

There's a ton of ways.

But yeah, I 100% agree.

You do need that.

But that, once again, comes down to your brand positioning.

How do you strengthen your brand positioning by making sure you're not the only person that cares about your.

Yes.

You know, like, Nike has a bunch of, of brand ambassadors.

Yeah.

Athletes, you know, influencers.

All these people that.

That are wearing their brand.

Where's the CEO at?

Yeah.

You even name him?

I don't think.

Right.

Who the active CEO is Nike?

Like, I literally have no clue.

Yeah, but they have a bunch of spokespeople that are out there and shouting the brand from the.

From the rooftops.

So you have to do those things to grow your brand.

And too many, especially small businesses, are just so focused on themselves, and they're not making it a community.

They're not making it where a lot of people can have some stake into what they're doing.

And you're not even asking.

Right.

And the funny thing is, is that I think most people, if they like you, they want to help you, right?

And they're just waiting for you to say, hey, Jamar, could use your help, man.

Can you mind, like, talking about my show or just something I got going on?

Because I'd appreciate it, and I'm sure you'd be like, yeah, dude, no problem.

But.

But you're not going to do that if I don't go out of my way to say, dude, I could really use your help.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100 I.

So one of my good friends and.

And he's actually coming out to our event next month.

David Meltzer.

Oh, cool.

So he.

He has this whole philosophy around, like, just ask for help.

Yeah.

And it's.

It's shocking around.

I just actually want to talk about that really quick because so many people are going around this earth struggling and trying to get their business off the ground or trying to get into the right circles, and they're just trying to do it solo, you know, they're just doing it by themselves.

And it's almost like they love the misery of being alone and doing it by themselves, and they just don't want to ask for help.

And maybe that comes from their childhood.

Maybe it comes from something deep within.

Maybe it's a pride thing, maybe it's an ego thing, but you'd be amazed if you could just put that aside and just ask people for help and just tell people honestly, like, where you're at.

You know, oftentimes, like, when you launch, like, a new.

A new offer or a new service or a new business, just be honest with people and say, hey, look, I just started this business.

I'm just getting this off the ground.

This is what I do.

This is what I can promise you.

Yeah, I'm looking for my first couple clients.

Hit me up, you know, I'll give you an offer you can't refuse.

And, like, you know, just.

Just be honest and be authentic about it instead of trying to, like, put this thing on a pedestal and have all this stuff like, like, perfect.

And then you're wondering why people aren't buying.

It's.

You gotta be willing to just ask for help.

And so I Do believe in that philosophy as well, of just of being open enough to, to ask for help, but especially for ambassadors or people that are champions of your brand and, and who you are.

And just like you as a person, those people are the first in line, you know.

Yeah.

To, to want to help in some capacity.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's, yeah, it's us.

We're.

We're in our own way, we're the ones that are, that are refusing to ask for help.

Right.

And dude, it was like a pretty big epiphany the other day where I'm like, you know what, dude, I'm gonna ask everybody.

Like, I feel like I'm just gonna be like, hey, do you mind just talking about me a little bit?

Because I really appreciate it.

Right.

Like, it's not that much to ask from people, but people are not going to just do it.

I think maybe it feels awkward for them if you don't put out the ask.

Right.

Like, no one wants to just be like, oh, I'm just thinking we're gonna talk about Jamar today.

Like, even though you didn't ask for it, like, most people aren't gonna do that, but if you reach out to me and say, cal, like I could use some help, be like, no problem.

Yeah, absolutely.

Like, yeah, it's that the missing piece is the ask.

And I wanted to maybe take that because you talked really brief offer itself.

I think a lot of people are really struggling to close new business these days.

And I think a lot of it comes down to, you know, like, we're talking about.

We.

Brand advocacy is absolutely important, but like, having an offer that makes sense is also very important.

Can you just maybe like, take us into what makes a good product or service offer?

Yeah, 100%.

I talk to entrepreneurs every single day, especially just with a lot of small businesses and service based businesses that are struggling with this.

So.

Because there's one or two things.

So one thing is like, either you're not getting enough traffic in your business as a small business owner, or you're getting traffic you're just not get.

Your close rate is like abysmal, you know, like, it's just not great.

And that usually comes down to the offer.

And then there's, there's some sales and, you know, closing techniques and things of that nature of, of making sure that you're not squandering your sale basically on the call, but the, the offer itself.

And we just, we literally just did this with somebody where they had a new offer.

I know everybody's heard of like, people keep it simple.

Stupid kiss.

Yep, yep.

So it's so funny.

Like, I feel like with offers, people lose sight of what they're offering.

So this is where you start first with an offer.

First, what transformation are you giving somebody?

What are you acting?

Don't think about the features, the benefits, the bells and whistles.

What transformation is happening.

And then everything from your offer needs to stem from the transformation.

People write it in reverse.

They think about the benefits, the features.

Oh, they're getting this, they're getting that, they're doing this.

And they list out all this crap that no one really cares about.

If you.

If.

And I always give this analogy, like, if you're going to the doctor's office and you got a headache and you go to the doctors and you're like, man, I've been having this headache for a while.

It's not going away.

I don't know what's going on.

And then the doctor, they do a little couple of just basic checks and then they say, okay, what we're going to do first, we're going to start you off with this and this and this medication, right?

You don't go in and say, okay, where did that medication get made at?

What kind of bottle does it come in?

What color is it?

Listen, it's not coming in a white bottle.

So I don't want it.

I don't want that.

I don't want it.

I don't like the yellow writing.

I don't like the yellow writing.

No one has asked this information.

No, but they prescribe you and they do.

They don't even show it to you.

No, they don't.

You gotta go and go get the prescription.

You don't know how big the pill is.

You don't even know how you're really going to be taking it, how often.

Yeah, well, the doctor may really, you're.

Taking, you know, nothing.

But what you do is you say, yes, you go get the prescription and you go take it.

Right.

Because it's solving a problem.

The transformation you want is, I don't want to have my headache anymore.

Yeah.

And so you're going to do whatever it takes to not have that headache anymore.

And especially if the doctor, as an expert, is prescribing and informing you, like, hey, take this.

See how you feel in about a month or in a couple weeks, and then we'll reassess after that.

It's just, this is the way I break it down.

So simple.

Where.

Now look back at your offer.

Are you selling the transformation?

Are you Selling the label, the size and the colors and where it came from, and all this other stuff, no one cares.

They're not buying that.

They're buying the transformation.

So the goal is always to sell the transformation.

Now, as you're now reverse engineering that to create an irresistible offer, you need to make it where they would feel stupid to say no to your offer.

So now you've got the transformation of what they want, and you got to go deep on that, too.

So if you're selling something, you got to go really, really deep.

And nine times out of 10, it's probably gonna be they either want more revenue or they want cost savings.

Yeah.

Or they wanna save time.

So those are typically the three pillars of some type of transformation that they're looking for.

And then there's.

It kind of stems from there.

Yeah.

But those are typically the three things that they're ultimately looking for.

So if somebody wants to get in shape and they're sick of.

Okay, well, maybe they're just sick of feeling how they're feeling and they're sick of.

So you have to, like, list out all the pain points that the person is feeling before the transformation.

And so that's what should be on your sales page.

That is what you should be talking about on your sales calls, is what pain are you going through?

And tell me about that pain.

Yeah.

Because think about.

This is the same thing that doctors do.

Where is the headache?

Yeah.

Okay.

Where is it?

How.

How much is it hurting?

In what area?

How long have you had this for?

You could take the same framework from that and apply it to your offer and then be able to go on the pain points and then say, hey, if I had something that could take that away, or I've had something that could help with that, would you be interested?

Oh, yeah.

You just talked about pain for 10 minutes.

Of course you would be.

I think I know the title for your next book, Jamar.

It should be let me prescribe you a proposal.

I like that.

Prescribe you a proposal.

Man, if I was a doctor.

I think you're already on point, man.

I've never.

Okay.

I have never heard the approach of a doctor.

Dude, you.

You coin that.

You make that book.

It's just so simple.

I just try to dumb it down for people in the most simplistic way to God.

It makes immediate sense when you Tie it to Dr.

I'm serious.

That is 100% yours.

That is incredible.

Use that because I have never heard it.

But it makes so sense when you tie it to the fact that you go to the doctor with a challenge.

You're like, I'm sick.

My leg hurts, I've been puking, whatever.

I need help.

And they're just like, okay, let's see what your symptoms are.

Okay, you got a sore throat, great.

We're going to give you some, whatever antibiotics.

And you're just like, I don't even care what it is.

Just give it to me.

Just give it to me.

You're not even asking questions.

That's right.

Yo, give it to me.

Okay, but now we need to break this down.

So what we've talked about, ultimately, is that we need to understand everything about the challenge.

And it.

It sounds to me like it can't be you guessing.

You have to somehow identify with the person who needs the product, what their problems are.

Yes.

And, and, and this is the spot that a lot of people just miss.

So one is that you need to really get hyper clear on your target avatar.

Who.

That transformation that you say that you can.

That you could do for people, who is that ultimately for?

And we got to go deep on that.

You can't be like, oh, it's for everybody.

No, it's not.

If you're speaking to everybody, you're speaking to nobody.

Yeah, I know people have heard that before.

It is so true.

Somebody literally just said that on, on a call that I was on, and they're like, well, it's for everybody.

I'm like, you probably, probably.

But I said, there's probably things that you don't want to be doing.

Right.

That's right.

And that's a.

That's a great way to kind of.

To challenge that.

It's like, oh, it's for everybody.

Everybody needs this.

Okay, well, what are things that you're not willing to do?

Who are people that you're not willing to work with?

Let's go in reverse.

Think about the worst client that you've ever had.

What happened there.

Maybe that person or that scenario you don't want to go through again.

Yeah.

Now that's.

That's a parameter of.

That's going to shrink down that target avatar.

And you just want to get so clear on who that is.

And then what pain are they really going through?

Once you get clear on who that is, what pain are they going through?

And then if you can really tie the pain to the transformation, then it's so easy to talk about, especially if you actually can do it.

And then that's the other piece.

There's some entrepreneurs, you know, that I've coached and mentored and Advised before where I'm like, you say that you're good at this, but you're actually good at this over here.

You can't promise this.

And then there's that realization point of like, holy crap.

Yeah, that's why I'm not getting any sales.

Because also people can smell that bs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

From a mile away.

And they're like, have you done this?

How many people you done this for?

You ain't even doing this.

You ain't even doing this.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, and I think maybe that's the other side of it is that social proof aspect.

Right.

Like that's why testimonials are so powerful.

Because someone who has no tie to you hopefully is saying it worked.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's the other piece.

So, so as you're going through this, you need.

So there's two, two different things I can give you for answers for that.

So one, if you have a business that you've been around for a while and you've had, have had clients a lot of times, as an entrepreneur, we're so busy just in the business.

Right.

And we're not working on the business, unfortunately.

And so there's a thing where we're just delivering, delivering and then we're not capturing.

Yeah.

So we need to capture those testimonials, get that social proof.

And also I advise everybody to really start looking at.

In marketing world, we call that KPI.

So you need to look at what are the, in the transformation, what are the things that are happening that are data points that I can always look for every single time that I work with somebody body.

And then you're looking for those things and say, oh, got one.

Okay, that happened for you.

That happened for you.

Yeah.

And so for instance, like if it's, you know, back to losing weight, it's like, okay, you lost X amount of pounds.

That's a metric, right.

I'm able to get this much more time back that, that could be a metric.

I'm able to, I'm now off of X amount of medication.

Obviously you can't promise that, but you can say like, hey, we've had X amount of people now get off of this amount of medication.

Yeah.

Through our thing, you know, by, by becoming leaner, healthier and more fit as a result of that.

So you start to just get these points and then you want to capture this in either written or video.

I prefer both, actually written and video.

And then you, as a, as a service based business, you want to have a section on your website that is Plastered with all your case studies.

So that way it's so easy before you even get on a call with somebody you can show and say, hey, here's some of the people we work with.

I look forward to talking with you next Monday.

Yeah, yeah.

They look through that whole page and they're like, holy crap, now you got to start building it.

Right.

But as you start to add those videos and photos and stats and all this other stuff and you just make that page as long as possible.

Just keep just adding to it like a cake of layers.

Just layer it more, more.

So that way they're just like, how many people in the world, how many organizations, how many things have they done?

Yeah.

And then by the time they get on that call, they're already in a pre sold frame of mind.

Yeah.

Because they know now you, it works what you're doing.

But now will it work for me?

Yes.

Yes.

And that's where you have to explore it because maybe it won't.

Maybe it won't.

It's very true.

And that's where the call will come in once you have the offer.

Yeah.

And I know we're talking more about the offer, but that's where the call will come in, where you want to ask your kind of preset questions to make sure that it's actually a good fit.

Yeah, yeah.

You obviously want the new business, but you don't want bad business.

Yeah.

You know, one other thing that, that I've noticed over time and sending many, many, many proposals is that if I set, if we didn't agree on what was going to be in the proposal ahead of me sending the proposal, it's pretty much always led to headaches or potentially a flat out cancellation.

I feel like that's the other side of it, is that if you agree, you should, in my opinion, you should agree to the terms of the proposal.

The cost, whatever T's and C's are going to be in there, whatever additional expenses are going to be in there in that conversation ahead of sending the paper contract and make sure that they match.

Because whenever I've had a conversation, said, yeah, I'll send something over, but we didn't go over it.

It's always led to roadblocks.

It's, it's, man, you nailed it on the head.

It is never.

So I tell people and, and the people I'm talking with on a daily basis, I'm like, you should never have an email or a proposal sell for you.

Ever.

Yeah.

Ever.

So what we do is like, if, so if it's a company.

So we used to work with a lot of bigger organizations doing gigantic marketing campaigns and plans and social media and podcasts and all this other stuff.

What we did is that I would call, I would send an outline email.

So first when we have the conversation, I'm telling them the price or the investment.

I'm telling them like, this is what you all get.

We are getting an agreement, a verbal handshake that, hey, we want to move forward.

Give me the proposal.

Now here's the thing.

I don't send the proposal right away.

I send an outline of what we just talked about in the email and I say, hey, is everything that's listed here, is this like I get one more written agreement?

I see that this is, this is.

What we agreed on.

Yeah.

So I'm only sending a proposal if we're talking payment.

Yeah.

You know that, you know they're just gonna, they're just gonna accept because you've already gone over it two or three times.

Yes.

So that way, that outline that I send, I love send that to anybody else in the organization or handy talk to my procurement.

I need to talk to the CEO, I need to talk to whoever the cfo.

Okay, take that outline email.

And then also that email also has case studies, social proof, all that stuff there.

So that way if anybody knew that, hasn't directly talked with you, it that is looked so that way they could literally just point to, yep, this is what we're getting.

Here's the investment, here's people they worked with, blah, blah, blah.

Because it's a time waste.

It's a time if you're going to send proposals all day, like takes forever to do those.

Even if you have templates and stuff, it's still, it still takes, still just takes time to do that.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so you're getting the social proof, you're, you're asking for the reviews.

One of the questions that I always have is what's the right time to ask for the review, Jamar, Is it after the service has been completed?

Is it midway through your time working with a client in your experience?

At what point are you asking, hey, would, would you be willing to give me a three minute video or would you be willing to complete a LinkedIn review for me or whatever?

At what point are you asking for that?

Yeah, yeah.

So for a new client, we're asking for it right when they get the first win within.

So we always look for like low hanging fruit to be able to like if you sign on a new client.

So if you Have a new coaching client.

You're trying to have a quick win for them.

Yeah.

So that way they're like, oh, shoot, I didn't realize that.

Or oh, my God, I just did this.

This change, and I just landed $10,000 in my business.

I did.

Totally didn't realize that it could be this fast.

Yeah.

So you're looking for a quick win.

So one.

And then this is more.

We're getting to more of like, client delivery.

But if you, if you have a new client, you want to look for a quick win for them because you want to make sure that they're bought in.

And.

And the transformation is not going to take a year.

No one wants to wait a year for that transformation.

Right.

No.

That's why people fall off from doing a lot of things.

I always look for the first time that they have that win.

And then we look for, of course, that the end of the engagement.

So whatever the end is about, I would say about a month or a couple of weeks before the end of it.

We're asking for the testimonial.

Okay, but.

So we're getting almost two testimonials from them.

Yeah.

But then if there's a major win that happens.

Oh, we're immediately capturing that.

Okay.

We're not waiting for that.

Yeah.

Like, if they are like, dude, I just got a million dollars, you know, from a lead or something.

Like.

Yeah, we got to talk about that real quick.

Okay, so what you're saying is, I think most people are asking once and you're saying, no, ask, like, ask it.

Ask for the quick win, the quick win.

As you're closing to near the end of whatever your transformation is.

And then if there's something big, then too.

So potentially up to three, maybe more.

Yeah.

And.

And I wouldn't, I wouldn't overdo it with the person.

Obviously, it depends on the type of person and that type of stuff.

And then also the testimonials can be a little different too.

So if you're.

If it's like, oh, man, this person's just cruising and they're just keep getting wins.

Obviously you want to keep testimonial.

Get it again from the same guy.

It's like, yo, you got 20 videos.

For the same guy.

It's like, okay, you gotta, like, it might be a written thing or might be like, hey, dude, hop on my podcast.

Yeah.

So that might be the testimonial.

Right.

Because you're.

You're giving them value once again.

Yeah.

So there's different ways of doing this than just Asking for a video or for a written or fill out this form.

I think there's different ways to do it, but, but definitely the first one.

Like that first win.

And if they have that aha moment, it's a big win in their business.

You got to capture that.

Get it why the dopamine's high.

And then also that's the best time to ask, do you know anybody else that.

That needs this?

Okay, okay.

That's the other thing.

That's.

So that's more of a referral thing.

Yeah.

But like, who else needs this?

And like, man, dude, I didn't realize.

Blah, blah.

Oh, my God.

My buddy Jeff, man.

Yeah.

Always talking about he needs blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah.

And then that's how you build on that, that referral.

Yeah.

And I've been shitty at doing that.

And I know a lot of companies are.

I, I like, I said it was like a big epiphany the other day.

That you really need people to talk about you.

Oh, yeah.

To make that referral.

To make that connection.

Because you're the.

Like, I truly believe I'm the worst person to sell my company.

I think someone else has to do it.

Right.

Yeah.

We need those advocates.

We need that.

It's always better, though, when somebody else sells for you.

Totally.

And that's why I love events.

Because events.

So the other thing is if you can get your clients to talk with one another, that's.

And create community.

Oh, that's powerful.

Totally.

So, yeah.

If you can.

If you can develop that in some way, shape or form.

So let's say you have clients in your business and maybe you just host a quarterly client appreciation event and you're bringing everybody together.

Yeah.

And you're getting them talking like, you gotta create those experiences.

Because also that's where.

And also those client appreciation events, I also advise people to have them bring like a plus one.

Yeah.

So somebody that's not a client.

Yes.

And they just get to get soaked up in that.

So that's why we do like Forever Media.

That's why we do retreats and we do these like, dinners and these meetups and stuff.

Because we're bringing people into our ecosystem.

And then once they get a little taste, man, they're like, yo, they're drinking the Kool Aid.

Put me on a billboard in Times Square.

I like the Times Square billboard.

Yes.

That is a perfect segue into 10x networking.

Yeah.

I want to talk about a principle that you champion, which is called 10x networking.

How, like, I think many of us are Struggling, like, it's funny, in a time where it's easier to connect than ever, I think people are struggling to know what the best way to connect is.

Is it those in person events?

Is it building your LinkedIn or your Instagram?

Is it becoming an influencer?

And then, and then the other side of that is it's actually not easy.

As someone who's been in podcasting a long time, I've built a decent network.

As a Canadian, you know, 20,000 ain't nothing small for a Canadian, but it's a lot of bloody work, I'll tell you that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a lot of work.

I.

So as far as the networking, in person, I feel like is the most powerful.

Yeah.

As far as with networking.

And so there's just something to say, like if you get a certain opportunity sometime, you need to take the extra mile and figure out how you, how do you do this in person to kind of leave that lasting impression.

Yeah.

And just some of those intangibles that can happen with networking.

So in person is definitely the best way to do it.

Once again, like when it started, the beginning of this podcast, it's also though, having your brand position to be correct, to maximize everybody that you're meeting as well.

And so a lot of people are just kind of meeting people with no agenda, no framework.

They're just kind of like, yeah, if I bump into people or through conversation, I'm going to talk about me the whole time.

So they're not intentional about what, how can I maximize the relationship?

So every time I'm, I'm meeting with somebody, so I get.

Let's start this first.

How am I meeting so many people?

Okay, let's start, let's start there first.

Sure.

Yeah.

So I think number one is, is how many reps are you getting out there?

So on LinkedIn, on, on Instagram in particular, dude, I'm DMing like a fiend.

Yeah, I'm up in the DMs, man.

I'm a slide to your DM and I'm looking to start conversations.

Right.

Yeah.

That's the only way to kind of get the ball rolling.

And the thing is about, once again, about your brand positioning.

If you are also doing the other things of content and you're, you're helping people and you're.

That page is growing.

Once people click on your profile, they're like, oh, this guy looks interesting.

Interesting.

Okay, let me respond back to his message.

It becomes a lot easier.

But if you're not doing these things, this on on dig, on the digital side, this becomes a lot harder because you don't have any proof of anything, of even any identity of who you are.

But if you have that plastered around your content and your profile, it becomes a lot easier.

It's the same thing like a dating app.

If your profile is basically empty and you go to your dating profile, you're like, yo, I don't want to do anything with this.

Yeah, I don't even know who this person is that's not gonna respond back to you.

They don't even have a profile photo.

What the heck?

You only got a photo.

I'm not gonna reply back to you.

So some of this is like, once again, it's the positioning.

And so I'm actively.

I'm.

We're.

So me and my team, we're.

We're doing hundreds of starting conversations every day.

Yeah, every day.

So I want people to hear that.

Because your couple messages every week, that's not enough.

You need to be starting these conversations and you need to be constantly posting because you never know when they're going to come into the.

Into your world, into your network.

Yeah.

Number two, once we are in these conversations, we're looking how to provide value as fast as possible.

So we're not trying to get them to buy our thing or do, you know, we just want to give them some piece of value.

So one thing is, like, if we figure out that they have this type of job title and maybe that they're trying to get in front of more people, or they want more people to know about a cause or mission that they're.

That they're about, we immediately are trying to either send them an intro to somebody else, we're trying to send them our podcast episode that aligns with what they're talking about, or a video.

If people want more speaking gigs.

I have a whole masterclass on that.

So I'm like, hey, here's a free masterclass.

Check it out.

Like, literally no money, no nothing.

Yeah.

You can just learn.

Like, how do you get gigs right now?

Okay.

And then.

So you're giving value to that person, and then eventually they're gonna ask you, well, what do you do?

Yes.

And that's what.

That's your cue.

Then you're good.

Yeah.

They've asked for it and they're gonna be willing to actually receive it.

Yes, yes.

So you give value first.

That person's like, you know, it's almost like, think about if you're just love bombing somebody, right?

You're just like, hey, you're just giving flowers, you're doing this, you're doing that.

It's like, holy crap.

Okay, what, what do you want?

You know, like, who are you?

Okay.

Or, or you're like, oh my God, you're giving me so many gifts.

You're giving me so many things.

Okay, what can I do for you?

You know, like, yeah, you got to be able to give value first.

So all these influential people that you see me meeting, one, it's follow up.

So I'm constantly following up with people and trying to provide value.

And then number two, I am trying to figure out how in their world, what's going to be beneficial to them.

Yeah.

So that way they see me as an asset and not a liability.

Yeah, yeah.

And yeah, that was actually going to be my next question to you was how do you make sure you're meeting the right people?

Because we can get flooded with the wrong people if we're not being careful.

Part, part of it is I do believe in having a good gut intuition about things.

You got to trust your gut too.

Yeah.

Like, so I don't just take meetings with anybody.

But yeah, this one lady, she just joined our, our community.

We got this group called Six Figure Circle.

So anybody that's trying to make six figures, our entrepreneurs trying to make six figures in their business, they can join that.

But so she's from Australia and for some reason she shot me a message and we started talking on there and I was like, you know, and she's like, should I just join this program or should.

Or like, or should I talk with you first?

And I said, you know, something's just telling me, like, just to talk to you.

Yeah, you know, like I, I didn't have to, but just my gut.

Something told me to hop on the phone.

Right.

So I think, I think it's just that ability to trust your gut first.

Number two, make sure that you have your target avatar listed.

So that way you know, hey, these are the people I'm trying to get in front of.

A lot of times, if you don't have that target, the reason why you set ask that question is because they don't have a target.

Yeah, yeah, they're just, they're just taking meetings.

You're just taking, you know, you got parameters that you can set of being like, hey, this person.

Kind of just by looking on the outside, I can see that this person might be qualified to talk or if they're an influencer or, you know, a CEO or something, you know, of a company that you're trying to get in front of, you know, the conversation is a little bit different.

They might not be your target avatar, but they're like, hey, if I get in with this person, sir.

Yeah, they have, they have, they have a good circle.

Yeah, they got a good circle.

But I'm trying, so I want to provide value.

So that way they're like, yo, met Jamar.

Yeah, A lot of cool things.

Like, he helped with this and that.

I didn't even ask him anything.

Dude, you want to.

You like, hey, you want to come out to this event?

Oh, really?

You're invited me out to something?

Yeah.

How much is it?

You're like, no, no, no, just come through, man.

Just come through.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm in the circle.

Yes.

Yes.

Oh, goodness, man.

I'm like.

And.

And like, I have little kids, so for me, it's like I've.

I would love to do more, like, in person events.

I think I just, I struggle a little bit to leave right now, but I think in time that'll change.

But yeah, like, I. I've done the opposite thing.

I'm trying to build more connection.

I'm trying to do it through community, through LinkedIn, through, you know, my, my community that we're building, Catalyst Club.

But yeah, like, I'm finding ways to do it.

But yes, I actually agree with you.

Like, where possible.

But, you know, I mean, you're busy.

I'm busy trying to find even like 30 minutes to an hour to even grab a lunch.

Half the time is hard, right?

Like, I know your schedule.

I know my schedule.

They're packed, right?

They're packed.

Even, like, even fitting 30 minutes to an hour for something in person these days is feeling pretty challenging.

It's tough.

I guess it, it all comes down to the positioning, though.

I. I honestly believe that because, like, so I just had lunch, or not lunch, but it was.

We went to this black owned.

She sell juice.

Black owned businesses.

She sells juices.

Okay.

Like, fresh, cold, pressed juices.

And like, it was incredible people.

But I met with a lady of a large nonprofit out here in Richmond, Virginia, and I got introduced from a past client.

Now she went and scoped out my whole social and everything that was going on.

So by ti.

So she was like, by the time my assistant was trying to make the meeting right for an in person because I'm like, I'm right in Richmond now.

Yeah.

So I'm like, let's.

Let's connect.

She was like, really pushes, like, okay, next week.

Let's just do next week.

Like, but anytime you're Available.

Just let me know.

But so once again, is how we position the brand.

Because here's the thing.

If you had a meeting right now with, let's say, Gary V. Sure.

Yeah.

You'll make that.

You're gonna clear your calendar, man.

Yeah.

You're gonna figure out having.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, because he's positioned himself in a way where you see it as such value.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

That's what.

That's the challenge that I'm.

I'm for the audience, is that you need to position where you have so much value to give.

Yeah.

Where that meeting is now, not a hindrance to you.

It's something that you're going to get a lot of benefits from.

You want to hear one of the best closes that I ever got?

And I just.

I was dumbfounded, and I just said, okay, you got me.

I got invited to a coaching event, and we were out for lunch, and I was like, I don't know, man.

Like, I'm.

I'm pretty busy.

And he's like, like, dude, if it was Tony Robbins, you'd go.

I was like, damn it.

If it was Tony Robbins, I would go.

And I went.

I went to the event.

So there you go.

There are certain things people can say, man, that really gotcha.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying that so in person just is the most powerful, because I feel like through human connection, there's.

They're just something.

Those intangibles that just happened in person.

Like, I'm sure if we were in person, dude, our meeting would probably go by half a day.

Yeah.

Because we're just be.

You know, crack it up the whole time and just sharing stories and.

And business insights and all types of stuff.

But the thing is, is that, though, through community and through virtual events and through online, you know, like, just content, you can connect and build relationships online.

It's just that you have to position your brand correctly, and then in those conversations, provide value as much as possible to where they're going to like, hey, how can I help you?

You know, how can I help you?

And that's the best way to grow your business.

And that's how.

Honestly, that's how we get a lot of our new clients, is like, we're providing them value upfront.

Yeah.

You know, we're not trying to tell you, like, yo, your transformation ain't gonna happen in.

In.

In 12 months.

Like, how about I give you something right now?

How about I put your face on a billboard right now?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh.

Oh, shoot.

For what?

Like, how much Is it?

Oh, no, no, no.

I'm just.

We just.

We got an extra spot, man.

We're just gonna put your face on there.

What are you talking about?

Yeah, yeah.

What are you talking about?

Who are you?

Yeah.

Yes.

It's so funny that you say that because, you know, I mean, I've.

I've had the pleasure of being able to help a few people launch podcasts just who've been guests on this show.

We're like, kelly, how do you do this?

I'm sure it's same for you.

And one of them that.

That I kind of helped and gave some advice, he literally reached out to me yesterday and he goes, dude, you've been so helpful.

I'm trialing, like, a new service.

I think it's gonna be super valuable.

I'll do it for you for free.

Just be my test case.

And I was like, oh, my God, this service was worth thousands of dollars.

And he's just like, absolutely.

Like, you've been so helpful.

I just want to give back.

So that just, you know, that completely just, like, validates what you've been saying.

Yes, man.

And it's so.

And it feels so good, too, when that.

And then that was also the missing piece that I was going to tell people that if you're just starting your business and you're looking and you don't have those testimonials, exactly what you just said, you need to go find people and offer it for free.

And then say, hey, if you found value in this later on, you can continue.

And then this is the price and this is the value that it is.

But I am selfishly doing this because I do need.

I do need case studies.

Yes.

Yes.

And so that's a really good way to get a couple of good case studies under your belt.

And that way they already know, like, hey, just.

All the only thing I asked for in exchange is just a video and written testimonial.

And that's a great way to at least get those under your belt.

So that way you can just stamp and repeat.

But, yeah, it's.

It's the key, man.

It's.

It's.

It's.

In marketing, we call that a lead magnet.

So, like, how do you give somebody a lead magnet?

How do you give them something of value up front so then where they receive it, they're like, oh, man, what else you got?

Yeah, you know, it's just like, I think there's more there when you're going around in the.

In the.

In the food court mall when malls were cool.

Back in the day and food court in the Chinese, you know, the restaurant was like, hey, you want to try some General Soul Chicken?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

And they're like, okay, what else you got?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You probably heard of it.

Have you heard of West Edmonton Mall before?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So that's Edmonton.

That's in the town that we're in.

So as a kid, I spent a lot of time wandering the halls of West Edmonton Mall.

So I totally get where you're coming from.

Yeah.

And that.

That would give me every single time they get the little taste test.

Yes, that is good.

Who doesn't love Chinese?

But I guess I could go for something.

That's right.

Oh, my gosh.

Nothing like.

Nothing like food court Chinese, dude.

Nothing like it.

Thank you.

Thank you for, like, another incredible.

Like, this isn't just an interview.

I just.

I love.

I love having these conversations with you.

So just thank you for being you.

Oh, thank you, man.

I. I do it.

I love these conversations.

You ask great questions and, like, it's like, people need to learn this stuff because I'm trying to break it down to just some of the.

The most basic ways for people to implement this stuff.

Right.

So.

And.

And just some takeaways, hopefully, that people can just understand, like a.

Are you doing enough?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are you doing enough?

Like, hundreds of not getting leads in your businesses?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You need to have.

And then once.

Once you can get it to be an automated system that, you know, you.

You all seem to build systems around what you're doing and not just winging it all day.

Yeah.

I do believe in winging it to a certain degree.

But then you do need to have.

Yeah, it works for a while, but it's not sustainable.

You got to find a way to.

Make it sustainable, especially if you're the one.

You're the driver in your business.

It's like a lot of small businesses are.

You're the driver.

So you need to build systems to help support the things that you're doing.

But a lot of times we're just not doing enough.

We don't have enough output.

You know that that's going outward and letting people know about what we got going on.

Yeah.

And then number two is like your positioning and your business, your brand positioning is so important.

I'm just trying to, like, make sure people really hone in on this, how you show up, up, and how you're maximizing every single relationship connection.

Conversation is dependent on how you are perceived from somebody.

Yeah.

Like we just said, if it was a, it was lunch with Tony Robbins, dude, Kelly's going.

You'd be going.

That's right.

You know, like, so how did you become.

You don't have to be a celebrity or an influencer to, to be valuable.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, and, and, and all oftentimes like the title CEO of a large organization, you don't even know that person.

But if they're the CEO of Under Armour, you're like, oh, I gotta meet with that person.

Right?

Yeah.

Because of the brand of who they are, it already speaks for themselves.

So just focus on that.

And then your sales, your marketing, everything else becomes a lot easier and you can actually get tangible day by day results because they're in the conversations, they're in the emails, they're in the relationships you have right now that you're just not maximizing.

You're not, you're not getting the full potential out of your current circle.

So you don't, you can't even get into these new ones because you're not maximizing what you have.

So, and then how do you monetize what you're currently doing is that you have that brand position and then you create that offer that we talked about.

Like you get deep into the pain point, you solve a real problem and you become the only choice that matters for them.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

This has been super, super valuable.

This is beyond the value I thought we were going to deliver and I don't know why I shouldn't.

I should never set limitations.

Please though, because I know for a fact that people listening, they see how smart you are with regards to this marketing.

And look, we can't all do it ourselves.

That's just the simple truth.

Take us into forever media.

Take us into six figure circles.

Yeah, for sure.

So if you have a business, service based business and you're trying to grow your business and finally get to six figures, we do have an amazing community where I do hot seat style coaching and we get you to six figures.

That's no bs.

We talk about branding, sales, marketing and systems.

That's the, what you need to be focused on to get you to six figures.

And then selfishly I have that program put in there because I want to work with you one on one, you know, so we have that there.

So once you hit six figures and, and plus then we can work one on one and help you grow your brand, your business and get you connected.

And we've worked with over 2,500 entrepreneurs throughout the 10 years of business accumulated.

Already 4.5 million in client revenue and over 300 plus speaking gigs that we've done for our clients.

Podcast appearances, all types of stuff, and just help so many people navigate where they're at in their business.

And then we have amazing retreats and experiences that you can attend to get connected, change your circle.

To ultimately change your life.

So Definitely get connected.

ForeverMedia.com.

That's F O U R E V A Media.com and we have tons of freebies on there, so you can just go explore.

Yes.

And obviously we will be tagging your website in all of our posts.

It'll be super, super easy to find.

Mind.

I'll be tagging Jamar as well, so you can follow him on LinkedIn.

On Instagram.

Also, the one thing we didn't really talk about was.

Well, two things.

We talked about it briefly.

You have an incredible book.

Change your circle, change your life.

Get it?

Yeah.

If you enjoyed this, you'll like it.

It'll change.

It will.

It'll change your life.

I loved it.

It's very touching.

It goes over Jamar's life story.

Really.

It's.

It's, it's a biography, but it's so much more.

That's what I remember saying that in the first place.

It's just being like, wow, like, like, not only did I learn about you, but I learned so much.

Yeah.

So much more.

And last but not least, obviously you guys saw.

I really enjoy this conversation with him.

He's an incredible individual.

We didn't talk about your podcast, so we're.

He's on my podcast today.

But the reality is Jamar has an incredible podcast of his own.

He has exceptional guests, and it is called the Forever Podcast.

Yeah, the Forever Podcast, man.

It's like.

So we, we focus on personal branding, entrepreneurship, and we're sharing stories on there of.

It's the stories and the tactics of how to grow your business.

We've had some amazing guests.

So we've had.

And C.J.

Watson, he played for the Bulls.

NBA.

We've had.

We just had Hala Taha on there.

David Meltzer, we got.

Speaking of Tony Robbins, we had his son on there, Jared Robins, which was absolutely.

Dude.

His episode.

Please listen to that episode.

I was like, my eyes.

I don't know if I blinked during that episode.

He was just providing so much value of just your overall life and how you.

We talked about purpose.

Oh, my God.

That is the episode to listen about.

Wow.

About purpose.

Feel like I'm just gonna leave this and I'm gonna be putting that on.

I'm doing.

It's like, it's just crazy good.

Yeah, we just interviewed a ton of amazing guests.

But then we also bring on other CEOs and other practitioners of business so we can really get down to the tactical tips to really help you in your business.

So if it's marketing, sales automations, email, how to position yourself in your brand systems, operations, all those things, we are covering those things so you can learn how to implement those in your business.

Yeah.

And like, obviously, if you're listening to this show, it.

It's your show too.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

100%.

100%.

Yeah, yeah.

Honestly, a lot of my listeners probably need to migrate to your show too, because there's so many, so many nuggets.

Dude.

Always a pleasure.

Always a pleasure.

I can't wait till our next conversation.

And just thank you so much for coming on and chatting with me today.

Thanks, man.

Appreciate it.

And don't forget, everybody, if you could change your circle, you could change your life.

Until next time.

You've been listening to the Business Development Podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.

See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.