The Unfiltered Truth About Raising Capital with Laura Gabor

Welcome to episode 270 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today we're joined by Laura Gabor, co founder and CEO of Ecologica, Founder of what in the Tech, angel investor and one of the Peak's emerging leaders in tech for 2024.

Laura's journey from immigrant roots to tech leader and investor is nothing short of inspiring.

And she's here to share the unfiltered truth about raising capital, breaking barriers, and what it really takes to succeed as a founder today.

Stick with us.

You are not going to want to miss this episode.

The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.

And we couldn't agree more.

This is the Business Development Podcast, based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development capitalbd ca.

Let's do it.

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to milestone episode 270 of the Business Development Podcast and it is my absolute pleasure to bring you today.

Laura Gabor.

Laura is an influential entrepreneur and the visionary, co founder and COO of Ecologica, a company committed to fostering innovation through collaboration and inclusivity.

With over a decade of experience in operations and strategy, Laura has consistently transformed ideas into meaningful solutions that drive growth and efficiency.

She's made a name for herself not only through her work at Ecologica, but also as the founder of what in the Tech?

An initiative dedicated to making technology more accessible and inclusive for all.

Recognized as one of the peaks emerging leaders in tech for 2024, Laura brings a powerful blend of leadership, empathy and forward thinking to every project she undertakes.

An angel investor in Woman founded Startups, Laura champions a tech landscape where equality and mentorship thrive.

Her passion for empowering women in tech shines through her active role as a mentor, advisor and council member in initiatives like Tech plus Biz for Sick Kids.

And she builds communities and inspires future female leaders.

Laura's influence stretches beyond business.

She is crafting a legacy defined by impact, equity and unstoppable momentum.

Laura, it's an honor to have you on the show.

Wow.

I am just going to.

Can I invite you along to everything I do?

Sounds like I'd be traveling a lot.

Such an unexpected and wow, intro.

I hope I can live up to that intro during the episode.

My gosh.

Well, you know, between me and you, you may not know it, but you've done some stuff.

Because every time I get asked, you know, I meet some new people.

Oh, like, what do you do?

And it is, you know, I've crafted the, the response now, but for a very long time it was a very hard question to answer.

And I always just joke that I'm a bit like an octopus because I have my tentac.

Everything.

Yeah, it's.

It's been one of the, like, big eye openers of being the host of this show is I just realized, holy cow, are we ever standing on the shoulders of giants like you?

It's incredible.

And you know, like, I've had the pleasure of interviewing such incredible entrepreneurs, founders, angel investors, you name it on this show.

And it, it never ceases to amaze me how much people can do it.

Really.

It's really unbelievable sometimes.

And, you know, you're definitely one of those people.

Oh, thank you.

I think a lot of it comes down to, like, the support system that I'm surrounded by and like the people around me and, and just how much they like, lift me up and cheer me on and support me in every capacity, whether I'm up or down.

I truly don't think, you know, they always say it takes a village.

And I feel like I've truly built a village for myself in a way that just allows me to thrive and hopefully allows me to help those around me thrive as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, as a serial entrepreneur, an angel investor, and God knows, whatever's next for you, you know, I can't wait to find out.

But how did you end up on this path, Laura?

Like, who is Laura Gabor?

How did you end up on this path?

Because it's incredible.

Well, you know, like most tech entrepreneurs, I studied political science and history at university.

Really unrelated.

And you know, it.

I think it happens often nowadays where what you study in school isn't necessarily the way you go.

I grew up, I'm a first generation immigrant, so both of my parents come from Transylvania, which a lot of people don't know.

And a fun fact that I always tend to share that English is actually my third language.

So when I grew up in the house, we always spoke Hungarian and I do still speak it fluently text with my family, all that in Hungarian.

And I was actually born in Quebec, so French was my second language.

And then in grade one, my family picked up and moved across the river To Ottawa.

And that's when I started to learn English.

At the time, I mean, ESL kind of existed, but my parents, let's just say, didn't believe in it.

And they kind of thought, well, she's just gonna go to school and she's gonna learn English.

It'll be fine.

So I didn't really speak any English in grade one when I went to school, except for the fact that I knew every single word.

To Coolio's Gangster's Paradise.

A lot of people know about me, but it is the one thing that I don't think I knew the words, but I knew all the like sounds to make in order to sing this.

At like 5 years old.

My grandma doesn't speak English.

And I.

She raised me when I was like.

Like, she was kind of my daycare.

Yeah.

So she couldn't have understood the song and that I probably shouldn't listen to it at that age.

But that is something that I think almost nobody knows about me is that was my introduction to the English langu.

And I know every word.

It's a great song.

It is.

It is objectively still a fantastic song.

Yeah.

And so, no, I think I grew up in a house that was like very, I would say, typically Eastern European.

Did all the cultural things like the Hungarian folk dancing and the scouts in the school and all that kind of stuff.

So I really kept in touch, I would say, with like, my family's culture and roots, but just like kind of that Eastern European mentality of, like, work hard and like, do like everything and succeed.

And like, doing poorly in school was like, not an option in my household or for me.

And so my mom was actually, I would say, one of the Canada, like, I wouldn't say Canada's first tech entrepreneur or anything, but she was in this system very early on.

So she worked at JDS Uniface, which was like Nortel's big competitor.

So in.

In the high tech industry, in the fiber optics industry, which was at the time, you know, in the 90s, absolutely booming in Ottawa.

Yeah.

And so she was, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, employee number 66.

And she had no formal, like, university education, nothing like that.

She really did just kind of work her ass off.

And at the time, I think the environment was such.

Where, like, if you did do that, like, you'd get rewarded.

I would say nowadays it's a bit tougher of environment.

Like, not everybody who works hard just gets opportunities.

Unfortunately, that's no longer really the case.

And so she.

Yeah, she was employee number 66.

And then eventually like by the time she Left in the mid-2000s, she was the like director, like leader of, I think about a person, like a thousand person team.

Wow.

So they had grown just like we see some of the tech companies growing now.

And so I feel like that was a bit maybe of like, like a little bit of a. I don't really think about it often, but it was a little glimpse into the tech and the tech industry, just like the growth that it can happen.

And I was obviously quite young at this time, you know, probably late elementary, early junior high type thing.

So yeah, definitely in the formative years, like seeing all of that happen.

But I also saw the crash, right.

I saw the huge crash of Nortel and JDS and, and what it did to, I would say for like a short midterm to Ottawa's economy.

And so tech for me was very, it was very specific.

And now I see tech as a much more broad industry, I would say.

And then, you know, I went to university, did the thing.

I was very convinced I would become a lawyer.

That was my, you know, dream, if you will, since I was probably 9 or 10 years old.

And I always love to talk and I was always very assertive at the time.

You know, they were always just saying, oh, you always argue.

I would say women are just as assertive and just because we're argumentative doesn't necessarily mean that we're arguing.

And so law felt like a very natural place for me to go.

Yeah.

And I really thought about it through, through my years in university and I did do the undergrad that kind of matched it.

But I got to a place where I was like, man, I don't really know if I want to work, you know, seven in the morning till nine at night articling for like some male dominated like law firm.

And you know, I just like in my head I was like, is this what I really want to do?

Like, do I really want to work my whole like twenties away and not enjoy them at all and that kind of thing.

And so that was kind of what led me to not go down the path of law school.

And I know like it was a tough decision for me, but at the time I also thought, you know what?

Like it's not going to go anywhere.

If I work for two or three years and I want to go back to school, it's not going to stop me in any way.

And so I ended up starting to work for the federal government.

So I was part of the FSWEP program, which is The Federal Student Work Experience Program, and it was here in Toronto.

So I worked for Passport Canada at the time.

It's now Service Canada, and I worked in the Passport office.

And I kind of did all of the different functions of the office.

Like, I learned how to do all of the different functions.

And, like, truth be told, I felt very understimulated, like, mentally.

I feel like at the time, you know, I'm in my early 20s, I really wanted to hustle.

I really wanted to, like, kind of build something.

And it felt like more of a place of, like, I guess, complacency or just a place where like, yeah, maybe if you got two kids and you gotta, like, take them to hockey and soccer every night and all that kind of stuff, it's a really comfortable, like 9 to 5.

But I just didn't feel like I was being pushed in any way.

And so I started very early to learn to lean on my network.

And what I did then was reach out to the people around me.

And I said, hey, I'm looking for my next thing.

I'm not going to be really picky.

I just want to get into the private sector.

And through a connection, I actually ended up at a private wealth management firm.

It was quite small.

So again, I got to learn a lot of different functions of a business and how it operated.

And so I got to do everything from, like, a full digital transformation where, like, I led their whole charge of, like, moving to the cloud about a year and a half before COVID hit.

So that was very good timing for us.

Yeah.

But I also did everything from, like, I started our newsletter for clients and, like, did the comms and like, our quarterly reports.

I had made them virtual and put them online and just like all sorts of stuff, you know, started there as an admin associate, moved into the customer service role during somebody's mat leave, then moved into kind of that operations role.

So I was really, really lucky in that during my kind of earlier working years, I got to really experience so many different facets of a business.

And I think that allowed me to kind of see what are the things I would do or what I things I wouldn't do.

And so it really gave me, like, a clear picture and understanding of, like, how a successful business should and could be running.

Yeah.

And again, you know, it was during, like, the Great Resignation where I thought, you know, maybe it's time for a change.

I'd been there for almost seven years.

Yeah.

And so I thought, okay, time for a change.

So I moved.

I went to Beta Kit which was like my, a first taste, like real taste of startup mode.

And so I effectively ran the non editorial side of the business there and it was obviously a really eye opening experience and that I got to meet a lot of people in the tech ecosystem and get to know, know a lot of founders and entrepreneurs.

At the time I had already started angel investing initially with like a friend who I think has been on the podcast.

And then I also just from there kept trying to do like checks to founders that I thought were really interesting and, and my first angel investment ever, and maybe this is a, a good segue for it was pretty much on an idea.

So someone came to me, a friend of mine and just was like, this is what I want to do.

I don't know how I'm going to start it, whatever.

And I just thought, you know what, why don't I support her, why don't I help her?

I also knew that no matter what she did, it was going to be successful.

Like I was so certain of that because I was like, you know what, she can sell anything to anyone.

So whatever direction she wants to take this company and I trust her implicitly and I know that she will succeed, succeed.

And you know, what is it five or six years later, top 10 of globe and Globe and Mail's fastest growing companies.

So yeah, I knew, you know, I knew which horse I was, was hitching my wagon to, let's just say.

And it was really interesting to like see her journey as well.

And, and it brought me into the sphere about being around more entrepreneurs.

Like I started to go to more pitch competitions, started seeing more ideas that were out there and, and so it kind of like really piqued my interest in terms of that angel investing.

And now I have I think four or five investments.

All in women founded or women led companies.

Yes.

Wow.

Wow.

I know who you're speaking of.

Yes.

Has been on the show.

Incredible individual.

Always enjoy interviewing her.

What was it though?

Because it's one thing to like know about tech.

It's a whole nother thing to be like, yeah, I'm gonna just invest everything.

I got into it.

Yeah.

At the early stages it really has to be about the founders and I think we don't angel invest in Canada collectively like we should.

Maybe a controversial statement to make, but I think I don't remember what the statistic is exactly, but it's something along the lines of like you need to make like 13 angel investments to get a return.

Yeah, I've heard that as well.

We forget that that's that is not one or two that you are absolutely just like, oh, God, please, please.

Right?

Like, it just like any other portfolio or investment, right?

You're not going to put all of your money into the financial sector.

You're not going to put all of your money into Google.

Right.

Like, you want to diversify.

And I think that's the key with angel investing, too.

It shouldn't be the only, like, investment vehicle you use.

You also shouldn't expect only one, maybe two companies to bring that huge, amazing return for you.

And so I think the way that I approach angel investing is kind of a couple questions.

Is usually, I mean, my one thesis, I always joke is women and good vibes.

So that's how I invest because I have everything from CPG to B2B SaaS, like, IOT in my portfolio.

So it's really all over the place.

And really the thing that I look at is like, do I think this is a problem that needs to be solved?

Like, am I convinced that this is a problem?

And do I think this is a pretty good solution?

Maybe not the best, maybe not the worst, but a pretty good solution?

And do I think the person running the company or like the founding team are the people that can make.

They care enough, they're smart enough, they know, like, they have the skill set, whatever it is, to, like, make this a success.

And then outside of that, I mean, a global pandemic can hit, right?

And they can go under.

So it's a risky investment.

And the way I view it is you kind of just have to be okay with losing that money.

Like, in my head, I'm never going to make an investment if it means if I lose that money, I can't pay my mortgage or I can't put food on the table.

And so maybe that means you only write $2,500 checks or $5,000 checks, but you can write five of them or seven of them.

Yeah.

You don't have to write a $50,000 check into one company.

Right.

You can write smaller checks.

Like, people a lot of the times think they need to write a 50, 70, $500,000 check as an angel, and you really don't.

And it's in your best interest to not stress about the amount that you do put in.

If you're going to go to a slot machine, stick in a check and pull the lever.

That's.

That's your angel investment.

Right.

That's truly what it is.

In fact, maybe you even might have better odds at a casino.

I'm not sure but so I think, I think, like, people forget that ultimately.

And I think to.

I just don't encourage people, if they're going to be so attached and stressed out about the money to, to do it.

To be honest, I, I want the angel investing, like, landscape to thrive, but I also know how detrimental and like, difficult it can be for founders when there's somebody on the cap table who's maybe a relatively small check and is just so nervous about losing that money that they're constantly calling, constantly emailing like you're, you forget that you're essentially taking that founder's focus away from building their company and making it successful just to, like, appease and like, calm you down.

And that's not good either.

And like, I would say across my investments, I have very, very different communication styles.

Like, there's one company where I'm the only investor.

So, like, the updates are basically like, everything good, great, and I'm here and I'm here to help if you need it, but that's it.

Like, we don't really talk about the business.

And then there's one that has multiple investors, like a pretty big cap table.

So, like the man, those, like, I aspire to have those types of, like, investor updates.

There's stunning, beautiful PDFs and all that kind of stuff.

Like, just really, really, like strong.

But again, there's a bigger cap table, so it makes sense.

And so, but again, it's usually like, hey, can I help you sell?

Or like, can I get a code?

Can I do something to like, you know, get eyeballs on it and if you need anything, I'm here.

Like, that is truly my involvement as an angel.

And some people can be way more strategic.

Like if they're in the industry and they give you some money, they can make connections, all that sort of stuff.

Generally not where I've fallen, I've been more like, here's the money, now go build.

Yeah, but I think too, like, there's a lot of angel groups who have like, expectations of startups that I think are beyond what angels should have.

Right.

We got told that we were too early for an angel group.

We've had a family and friends round.

We have two commercialized hardware products.

We've had some revenue.

The way I look at it, we're a borderline too late for an angel group.

And to me, saying feedback like that, and you know, I did find out through other channels that was not actually the case.

It was the hardware that was the issue.

But to me, feedback that is vague or just not True.

Is really dangerous to the tech ecosystem because I'm a part of it.

I'm an angel.

I know objectively we're not too early.

My first investment was barely incorporated when I gave the check, so I know we're not too early.

Yeah.

And my co founder, Janessa, like she, she's a two time founder, she also knows the game.

But then you might have like Sally from around the corner who's doing this for the first time.

It's the first group or person she approaches and the feedback to her is you're too early.

And to me, like you might straight up be ending a company with your feedback.

I just think we need to be more mindful of like how we're doing that and what we're saying because it can have such a huge impact.

Right.

And I don't know if it's like a lack of angel investing education in the country or if it's just like the general societal, like we're just more risk averse than, you know, our counterparts in the south or things like that.

I'm not sure what the kind of solution is to it.

I know I talk about it often, so hopefully it resonates with even a couple people.

Yeah.

To hear what angel investing should and could be like.

And I think too like we have to just be, you know, like I, we went through a conversation where I was told like I was giving kind of, yeah, we're raising this, we're raising on a safe, whatever.

And they're repeating it back to me, normal, you know, nothing like, oh, they made notes, they're repeating it back, confirming the information, but they repeat that convertible note and I go, no, no, we're raising on a safe.

And they say, well, it's the same thing.

And objectively speak.

And like, factually speaking, those are not the same thing.

Right.

They're just, they're just not.

And so I just, that's when I stepped up and I was like, listen, I'm an angel investor and I've invested through both vehicles.

They're not the same thing.

While we prefer convertible notes and it's like, okay, well your preference isn't fact.

Right.

And again, what you're doing is like you're either making me assume that you're an uneducated investor or alternatively, you think I'm an uneducated founder.

Yeah, right.

And like I would say both are equally bad because in one instance you're not educated to make an investment and the other instance you're taking me for a fool or like you're trying to, like, you know, pretend like I. I don't know what I'm talking about.

And so there's just, like, these little gaps.

And I think a lot of it is also a power structure because I think here there's so many more founders than investors that, like, the investors kind of hold a bit more power.

Yeah.

Whereas I found in the US There's a bit more of an even playing field.

Like, I, when I was there for New York Tech Week, I had a VC straight up say, great.

Like, I know what your company does now.

Let me pitch you.

And when I tell you I had to, like, physically pick my job off the floor.

What are you, like, what is happening right now?

Like, my brain just couldn't compute.

Right.

And so I think, you know, there's just.

I mean, ultimately there's also a lot more capital.

So, like, it.

It's also just a numbers game.

Like, it's not necessarily Canada's fault that we don't have as much capital.

But that's my.

I guess my.

If you call it my angel investment there.

I love it.

I love it.

And you know what I'm kind of hearing from you is if you get one no from an angel group, don't give up.

Don't give up.

There's plenty of other people who can say yes.

And what you're kind of saying is potentially if the wrong person talks to somebody too soon and says, no, you're not ready, and they're at a point where they're like, we need help or we're dead.

They might just choose to give up.

And then.

Yeah, it makes me, like, roll a little bit.

Something like, what amazing technology didn't make it because somebody said that to them.

Yeah.

And I think, too, I always look at investors too similar to, like, a job search.

Right.

It's important for them to like you as a candidate, but it's also equally important for you to like them as a company.

Like, you should interview them the same way they interview you.

Right.

To make sure that there's a balanced fit.

And I think a bad investor on a cap table can be super problematic.

And so it's just as important for founders, I think, to get to know their investors as it is for investors to get to know the founders, because that's where you're gonna have a relationship that more flourishes.

Right.

And I think, too, the, you know, you said, don't give up, so you're gonna be, you know, I'm talking 2024 here in the fall, and right now, the Average round to raise.

I don't know if this is North America or kind of more Canada focused, to be honest, but it is around 200 to 250 conversations before you get a yes.

Wow.

So it's not one or two.

It's not 20 or 30.

It is in the hundreds.

And so you have to be really tactical.

You have to be really thoughtful about how you go about it.

We've made plenty of mistakes along the line, along the line of, like, how we fundraise, and we definitely kept refining how we were doing it.

But in my opinion, as of.

As of today, the days where you could, like, book 20 investor meetings over the span of two weeks and get your round closed, like, just doesn't really exist.

You need to really build the relationships.

They're super important.

People need to get to know you.

They need to trust you.

They need to, like, see how excited and passionate you are about what you're doing.

And you just.

You need to have conversations in the hundreds.

And I think if you're prepared for that, then it's a lot easier than if you're on your 20th, 30th or 40th conversation.

You're like, man, this is never going to happen.

It's like, okay, well, I still got 150 to go, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And as a.

Like, if you're a solo founder, that's like, my heart goes out to you because I know that on our end, like, there have been days where, you know, I am just an absolute wreck, and I'm like, never going to happen.

Whatever.

And my co founder Jim's in, like, no, like, it's fine.

We're gonna figure it out.

Then there's times where she's like, I don't know.

I'm so overwhelmed.

Like, I know it's gonna be okay.

And so I really do feel for the solo founders because I think that's a really, really difficult place to be.

I. I truly don't know what I.

What I would do without.

Without Janessa.

My gosh, I'm really happy you chatted about that.

And it's because, you know what?

Like, we all have our days, right?

Like, even me, I'll be like, why are we not as big as I wish we were?

Why don't I. I don't have all the clients I want to have at any given moment, and then it's like, dude, just, like, chill out.

You're.

You're fine.

I have to, like, recheck myself and bring myself back down to earth and be like, you are fine, everything's fine.

It's going to be okay.

And then inevitably, something amazing happens, you know, the next week, and it's like, oh, all's good again.

But I think we do really fluctuate as entrepreneurs, as founders.

We are, like, up and down and left and right.

And it's just important to recognize that anything happening, no matter how bad it feels in the moment, it's only temporary.

There's probably something incredible happening next week.

Not be more true.

The.

I can't even count the amount of days where, like, something has happened in the morning, and I'm like, ah.

Like, why am I doing this?

And I.

Not even, like, three hours later, something happens, and I'm like, oh, this is the best thing I've ever done.

I know, I know, I know.

People underestimate what a roller coaster ride it truly can be, because it's like, you know, you're like, oh, yeah, I filled out 7,000 applications.

But, like, one of them comes back, it's like, oh, you didn't get in.

You're like.

And then all of a sudden you get five yeses and you're like, wait, never mind.

What?

Did I not get in?

And, like, you just.

It's just so fast, like, the one to the next that, like, it truly, like, I. I can.

There's been so many actual individual days.

Forget one week to the next, but individual days where I've had that, like, because, like, you just.

You never know who you're gonna meet, you never know who you're gonna talk to, never know who you're gonna get connected to and, like, what might fall into your lap from, like, work that you've done six months ago.

Yeah, honestly, it's like, it's like all work that comes to fruition.

And I find, you know, a lot of the times, like, when it rains, it pours, that's both good and bad.

And so a lot of the times you're, like, stuck in it.

You're like, oh, my God, so many bad things are happening.

And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's like a million good things are happening.

And so it's always like, that perspective is super important.

That, like, totally.

One week at a time or one day at a time.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I just think it's really important.

And I really do try to humanize entrepreneurship as much as I can on this show because I think some people, they can look at it like, oh, it's always rainbows and butterflies and shiny rainbows.

It's like, no.

There are days where it's like holy crap, I'm gonna lose my house.

Right?

Yeah.

And then there's days where it's like holy crap, I'm buying a twenty million dollar mansion.

Right.

But you just don't like it's very up and down like that.

And you have to really learn to ride in the middle like emotionally as much as humanly possible.

And try not to look at like, not look at everything as like horrible until you give it like a few days to level out.

Because everything can seem really bad in the moment.

It can be really scary.

And I do worry sometimes like mental health wise for entrepreneurs because the bads can be so bad or feel so bad that it can feel like there's no way out.

And yet the way out was coming tomorrow.

You just needed to get through today.

Well, and I think like, you know, a lot of I think too with the remote work, which like I'm a huge fan of Hybrid personally.

Yeah.

I love the days where I'm like in my sweatpants and I sit down and I get through all of my emails and my admin work and I take a couple calls and whatever.

But I also really like love days where I go cowork with some friends.

Yeah.

And like even like my co founders on the west coast.

So we don't get to see each other very often.

But when we do see each other and we sit down, like we literally.

She was just here a bit ago and like we sat down for a lunch and like we came up out of me saying something that she misheard, like literally just didn't hear what I said properly.

We came up with such an amazing plan for something like this huge marketing thing that would have literally never happened had we were not sitting there together at lunch and she just didn't hear me properly over the sound of the restaurant.

You know what I mean?

And so I do think there is like importance in like bringing people together.

And I, and I honestly think the founder journey can be super lonely because you're spending a lot of your time basically convincing people you're worth it.

Yeah.

Whether it is trying to get early adopters for your tech, whether it is trying to get investment, you are essentially constantly trying to validate your company to somebody and that is mentally, physically, emotionally exhausting.

Right.

And everybody has an opinion, everybody has feedback, everybody thinks you should do it this way or that way.

And so you're always trying to balance.

Okay, like who did this feedback come from?

What is the feedback?

Is it been something that we've been hearing from multiple people across multiple places that we should really start to consider and like, change things.

Is it somebody who's not really in our industry but they know, like, it's really tough sometimes to like, cut through the noise and figure out, like, what are the things you should listen to.

Like, we're probably on like version 46 of our pitch deck.

Like, I don't even know at this point.

Like, I've changed it so many times, but it's always been really pointed feedback and we've always kind of tried to change it.

Once we heard the same thing three or five times, like, we're not going to go, like, one person is just going to be like, oh, I don't like that green.

Okay, that's not really feedback.

Right.

That didn't happen.

But it's something like that I'm not really going to take seriously.

Right.

But if we're hearing like multiple times, like, oh, we need, we need to understand your market focus a bit better.

Great.

No problem.

We should do that.

Yeah.

And so I would say, like, I mean, I'm really proud of our deck where we got it, but it, it was again, like, I think part of it is having those 200 conversations filtering out which feedback you want to take and which you don't and which one is feedback kind of across the board from multiple.

And then every conversation kind of gets a little bit easier and a little bit more successful.

I really love that you, that you went there.

I forget who I was talking to, but they brought up that.

Kelly, everybody has advice, but not all advice is good advice.

It's, I think, as founders, especially new business owners, especially when we're talking to people who we think are very successful.

And I think in the beginning, our measure, our ability to measure what really successful looks like is kind of a crappy bar because we don't have a lot to compare it.

Like, I'll be honest, my, my measure of really successful has changed immensely even in like the two years I've done this show.

Right.

Because I've met really immensely successful people that were like, oh, maybe that other person that I took advice from wasn't the person I should have took advice from.

But I think it is really important and you touched on that and that's to have good advice.

But don't just take one piece of advice.

Have data, have, like, have something else you can compare it to.

Whether that's multiple people giving you the same advice or whether that's you fact checking within your own business to see, oh, yeah, that actually did move the needle for me.

I'm going to relook at that.

But don't just implement things because someone tells you to.

Like especially one or two people.

And I think too people forget that a lot of people won't write down feedback.

Like there's a lot of people that have been burned, so to say by like giving feedback on paper.

Yeah.

And so if any founders are out there trying to raise, I highly, highly recommend, whether it's maybe a VC in your industry or like your niche that is like later stage or something, try and find somebody that is an investor to sit down with in person face to face and have like a tear up session of your pitch deck.

That was one of the most helpful things I think I did.

I'll leave the VC nameless, but I absolutely adore him.

But I know he would do this for, for anybody or any founder.

Like he's very founder focused so I know he would help any founder.

But we sat down and I know at some points he was like, I feel like I'm being too mean.

And I was like, no, this is great because we.

I didn't even start the pitch.

I opened the deck and he said here are all my preconceived notions about what you're doing before you even open your mouth.

Yeah.

And that was so helpful to like reframe some of the things that I said and how I said them.

It wasn't even necessarily like I changed up our whole deck or anything like that, but I was like, okay, so he's thinking about these things before I even open my mouth.

Let me ask some other investors, maybe ones who've said no, maybe ones who like I'm just friends with or whatever.

Let me ask them what are their preconceived notions?

Is there alignment like between the person I spoke with and the other people?

And once you kind of start doing that market research almost, you get a really clear sense of the feedback that you should be caring about.

And I find too like I ab test in real life constantly.

It's one of my favorite things to do.

So I go to a lot of, I go to entirely too many events frankly.

And I hope by the time this airs I'm going to significantly less like just too many.

But it's also really helpful because I tend to try and like, you know, whether it's like a one liner, a two liner, whether it's about myself or the company, whatever it might be, I literally just try like okay, here's a two liner, here's the elevator pitch, was this person interested?

What kind of questions did they ask?

Did they even ask questions?

Okay, the other person, I went like, tweaked a few words, maybe change the messaging a little bit, focused on something else.

Okay, what did they think?

Did.

Were they interested?

What?

You know?

And so I think through all of those literally in person conversations, I was able to kind of come funnel it down to a thing that I was like, okay, almost everybody can understand this elevator pitch.

It doesn't matter if it's an investor, potential customer, or a random person in the tech ecosystem, I can make this.

I've honed it down.

Like, everybody understands.

And so I think, like, even just doing some of that real life kind of what do people think is like, really, really helpful.

And I don't think enough people realize that they can do it.

Yeah, because everybody thinks about it for email marketing, but it's like, no, you can literally just go up to one person, say one thing, and go up to another and say something else and see what happens.

Yeah, I love that I.

In business development, I've done that forever on the phone where I'll try different things to see, okay, what is the thing that resonates?

What's the thing that resonates with me, actually?

Because for me, I need to be able to say it in a way that's compelling, that builds interest, and that I like.

Right.

If I don't like what I'm saying, I'm not going to say it well.

And so, so much of my, like a B testing is actually not just for the customer that I'm pitching, but also for me.

And can I say it properly and remember how to say it properly?

Right.

But same as you.

Like, you know, every new client I've ever worked with, I've had to learn a few different.

A few different phone conversations for the introduction, the elevator pitch, as you would say.

And yeah, it's.

It's as much about being able to say it well and how you say it than it is about what you say, which is kind of what I learned over time.

And then I also learned that short and sweet wins every time.

Gravity and being concise is definitely a skill.

Yes.

My gosh.

Yeah.

You know, when you were talking about taking advice as well, I think especially as like, entrepreneurs, we really value the advice of people we know.

We know.

Right.

But I also think, and I've seen in my time, and not just in entrepreneurship, but hacking, just asking for advice in general from friends and family or just close confidants, they're very reluctant to tell you to, to go ahead and try something.

Why?

Because they don't want to give you advice.

To try something and then you bomb and then you blame them.

So it's easier to naysay an idea or to say, oh, you should be careful.

And then they can walk away and say, well, I told them or I told her not to do it if it doesn't go well.

And I think most of the time with people we care about, we are more likely to take the path of you should tread carefully, be careful.

We're not necessarily going to support this because if it goes poorly, we don't want to be blamed for it.

I think on a certain level you almost have to have advice from strangers in order to get honest, neutral feedback.

I mean, I definitely think there is absolutely value in the objective and like just stranger feedback.

For sure.

I think there's value there.

Absolutely.

I would say though, the people who know you and know you well are also the ones who know like what you're capable of.

Right.

A stranger may not know your history, may not know your skill set, may not know your experience, all those types of things.

Whereas like somebody close to you would.

And so I think I'm very lucky to be surrounded by incredibly successful like entrepreneurs, founders, ecosystem partners, everything.

Like, I am truly in the best company.

Yeah.

And there's, you know, when I went on to launch what in the tech, it all started with a Google sheet and me putting all of the events lists down on a Google sheet because I thought, huh, that's weird.

There's no Canadian tech conference list.

That's insane.

And a friend of mine was just like, oh, I need to put it all together.

I'm like, well, I've been to most of them.

Give me like 10 minutes and let me throw it down on a Google sheet.

So I didn't share that out to LinkedIn and it did really well.

It got circulated quite a bit.

And then I was like, okay, like tech terms kind of also came up and I was like, oh, I should probably like maybe just do like a high level dictionary, whatever.

And it was at dinner with three or four of like my fellow woman ecosystem tech folks that we were, you know, we try and do like a quarterly dinner.

And I was saying, I'm like, you know, I'm trying to like figure out what to do here because like, I don't really want one living on this thing and the events list in a sheet and you know, access or whatever.

I'm like, I don't really know.

I'M like, maybe I should just build a site.

Like, just go on Squarespace, put it together, just throw it up there.

And it wasn't.

There was not one person was like, that's a terrible idea.

You definitely shouldn't do that.

Right.

It was immediate support and it was immediate.

How can I help?

And I think the people that you're going to for advice with, especially if they're close to you, you should know that they're people who know what you're capable of, whether you've achieved it or not yet.

They're people who, like, understand the things that are important to you, your values.

Like all those things.

Like, people I was talking to knew how important it is to me to try and make tech more accessible, inclusive.

It is something I try and do every single day in, in one way or another.

And so, like, they knew this was not just like, oh, I have this idea.

It's like, no, this is really important to me.

Yeah.

And their natural reaction was, how can we help?

How can we support?

And every single one of them read the site before it went live.

Every single one of them gave me straight up feedback on what I was doing.

And then every single one of them shared it.

You know what I mean?

So I think, like, surrounding yourself with the right people is really important.

But I do know, I know a family of entrepreneurs, like huge Canadian companies, exited like founders, and when one of them has an idea, they call the other sibling and they say, this is my idea.

And the sibling then goes, here's 50 ways it won't work.

And he says, great, Those are the 50 things I'm going to focus on first.

Those are the things I'm going to focus and fix right off the bat so that it does work.

That's amazing.

And so I think, like, there's value in the.

This isn't going to work because xyz, I will never take feedback that is just like, oh, I don't think that's going to work, or I'm not sure I like that idea.

That's not feedback.

Right?

That's an opinion.

If you tell me, hey, I don't think this is going to work because X and Y and it's expensive and like, the amount of time it takes to do this is going to be really tough on you with like, how much you have going on and.

But I happily take that feedback and I'm very happy to hear about how the things that can go wrong.

It helps me either to make the decision to do it or not do it or like how to mitigate those things and things I may not have thought of.

Yeah.

And so I think there's like, there's really, there's a lot of importance in the, in the how this won't work type of feedback.

And I think there's equal importance in, in just having the people around you who are like, let's like, do it.

And like, we will do everything in our power to help make it successful for like, with you.

Yeah, I, I love that.

I love that.

I think in my experience, it's been really different because in the beginning I didn't know a lot of entrepreneurs.

Right.

Like, even on my own, I just didn't.

That's not.

The people that I spent a lot of time with.

You know, when I was younger, not, not a lot of my friends and family became entrepreneurs.

It was me.

Right.

And so kind of when I was initially getting into it, a lot of the feedback that I was getting was from non entrepreneurial people.

Love them to death.

Amazing people, amazing friends, amazing family.

But the advice was from a place of fear.

The advice was from a place of, oh, we know that entrepreneurship can be scary and dangerous.

And so in the beginning, I really had to like, motivate myself and be like, kelly, you are enough.

You can do this.

Like, you can absolutely do this.

And it took a while and I feel like I really, I don't want to say that I had to like, build myself up, but I really had to build myself up in my own little sphere of ecosystem.

And then when I got out there and I started meeting incredible entrepreneurs, the thing I noticed was the feedback from entrepreneurs is very different than the feedback from people that may have a 9 to 5.

It's a very different level of fear and maybe risk adverseness and life experience.

And I would say all the advice that I've gotten from entrepreneurs has been very, very beneficial, very valuable, very geared towards.

Here's what I would consider, here's maybe the challenges you might face, but you can do this, right?

Like, the entrepreneurial community is incredible.

Let me just start there.

Canada has an incredible entrepreneurial community.

I am proud to be a part of it.

I'm proud to get to know people like you and some of the amazing people I've gotten to meet on this show who are so encouraging, who build each other up.

It really is a place of positivity and buildup.

And I'm not sure that it's necessarily something that I have experienced outside of the Canadian entrepreneurial community.

And I'm not saying the rest of the world's entrepreneurial community.

I'm just saying that that's the one that I'm in and so that's the one that I've directly experienced in us.

Could be the same around the world, could be the same.

I'm just saying entrepreneurs are a different breed of people.

Yeah, it's, it's a, like, I think it's just a completely different set of like in things like priorities really.

And they're not better or worse than somebody who has a 9 to 5.

They're not better or worse than somebody who owns a convenience store as a small business instead or, you know, a gym.

Like what we're doing at ecological, like, yeah, we aim to change the world, but it's not better than the person around the corner or like the person who is working at the government office or whatever.

Right.

But it is a different, a completely different mindset for sure.

And it is, I think, I think the difference there being like that scarcity mindset versus the abundance mindset.

Right.

Like, I think the coming from a place of fear or like, what, here are all the things that can go wrong.

And it's like, well, what if we just focused on all the things that could go right?

Like, what if we focus on all the things that we could do or like, could go right?

Then what happens?

Right.

And I do really encourage entrepreneurs and founders to find other entrepreneurs and founders because I think it makes a huge difference to talk to those people.

I think it.

You get again, like, you just, you're a perfect testament to it.

You get different types of feedback and more actionable stuff and, and really well thought out things, I think, versus just like, oh, this is a terrifying thing that you're going after.

Yeah.

And I think like, you know what I said earlier, like, entrepreneurship can be really lonely.

I.

There's founders who's like, you know, romantic relationships have been destroyed or like they've lost a lot of friends along the way because they're maybe working a lot.

Or like people don't understand like why they care so much about what they're doing.

Yeah.

And how it's not, it's, you know, and I reference a friend of mine, Monique Samair, she's an exited founder and she talked recently on a panel about how it's not really work, life balance.

Work has to be a part of your life and it's not really balancing because that means they're at odds.

Right.

That means that work and life are at odds, but work is really a part of your life.

And as an entrepreneur It's, I would say, a significantly larger portion of your life.

And a lot of the times your hobby is probably melded into entrepreneurship or what you're founding.

Right.

Like, my hobby and passion project is one in the tech.

Yeah, but that's work to a lot of people, right?

To a lot of people, that is work.

But I'm like, no.

Like, that is what I'm passionate about.

That's what I care about, and that's what I.

That's a problem I want to solve.

And so I think, like, we have to.

Like, we have to think about it.

Like, you look at, you know, professional performers and athletes and things like that, it's like, nobody's telling them.

And this is fully from Monique, so full credit to her.

You're not telling an Olympian, like, oh, you should probably train less.

Or, like, you know, you shouldn't wake up super early at 6am to get to the track.

Yeah.

You're not playing like a performer.

Like, oh, you know, you're not telling Taylor Swift, like, you shouldn't play three hours a night.

That's insane.

I mean, it is crazy what she's doing, but it's like, people are, like, supporting it and encouraging it, and it's.

Rest is important.

Recovery is important.

Just like in athletics, it's.

It's important to let your body rest and recover, and you should take the breaks in the way that you need them.

But that might be something really different for an entrepreneur than it is for somebody else.

Like.

Like a break for somebody who has a 9 to 5, maybe on Saturday they go golfing, and, like, that's their break.

Maybe they.

They, you know, go out for dinner with friends or whatever.

But, like, maybe my thing is that, like, I can work at night and I don't have any plans, so I'm gonna go run some errands in the morning, or I'm gonna go to the gym in the middle of the day because it's less people, and I don't want to deal with all the crowds.

Right.

Just because I then work till 6 or 7 or 8 doesn't mean that, like, from 12 to 3, I didn't take a break or I didn't.

Like, I'm using my time differently.

And so I think when you're surrounding yourself with people who kind of understand that, like, it's a delicate balance because you don't want to fall into, like, that grind and hustle and, like, nothing else matters mindset, I don't think that's healthy either.

But I think finding your own version of what makes sense for you and how you integrate work into your life is really important.

And, like, remembering that not everybody's going to understand it or, like, it is also really important.

Yeah, I know, I know.

I've struggled with that exact same question, and I've struggled with it with plenty of people on the other side of this microphone asking them, did you ever find work, life, balance, like this elusive thing that everyone talks about?

And it's like, it's so funny because it's like, you know, I've had some of them come back and say, yeah, I found it.

I now work four hours a day.

It's incredible.

Took me 10 hours to get there, went through two divorces, and now I don't talk to my kid like that.

Like, that has been the price for some people.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Sometimes I. I'm not sure where I sit with it yet.

I think at times I felt it's bullshit.

I think times I felt like, oh, yeah, that's possible.

I think we can figure this out.

But, yeah, I think, like, the more I go down this path, the more I realize it just has to mold together.

Like, some days it's going to be work and some days it's going to be life.

Right?

And, like, some days they need more things in one area than another, and you just have to be okay with making that.

Exactly.

And I think sometimes it's months, right?

Sometimes, like, you're.

When you're.

Fund.

Like, I have done nothing for the, like, whole summer of 2024 on what in the tech.

I launched the accelerator list, I think, in June.

I haven't written a newsletter.

I haven't had a blog post up.

Like, I haven't done anything on it because I can't.

I've been fundraising with Ecologica.

That takes up so much time and just, like, mental energy.

You're also trying to run.

Like, I'm trying to run a startup with my co founder.

So it's like, I just didn't have the space for it.

Now we're getting into the place where, like, okay, hopefully we're closing our round soon.

We're going to be doing some hiring.

I'm going to find a bit more balance.

I'm going to have a different set of problems.

I know there's going to be.

I know there's still going to be problems.

I don't think money is going to solve them all, but I know it'll free up some of my time.

And so I'm like, great, maybe right now, between July and September, October, it's like an absolute gong show.

And I'm just like going to a million things and doing a million things and like, you know, my, my what in the tech has like, dropped off the ball completely and other things.

But, but I'm like, okay, come December, I'll catch up on some stuff, I'll reset a little bit.

Things will align a bit differently.

We'll hire some folks and like, life will look different in January.

And, and so I think it's also remembering, like, I, I literally spoke today with some mentees and they were asking.

I get this question a lot in those sessions too, when I'm talking to people because, you know, especially people who are like, maybe they're currently employed but they don't love their job.

They're trying to find a new job, they're trying to network, they're trying to do all of these things and like, they're just exhausted and they're like, I feel like if I don' I'm missing out, I could be missing an opportunity.

But if I do go, I'm exhausted.

And so it can be really difficult.

And I think reminding ourselves that, like, sometimes it's just a season, right?

Like, sometimes the fall or winter or spring or summer is just going to be something that you have to push through or sometimes you just don't.

Like, I, you know, skip the event and go get a massage.

Nothing's going to happen, right?

Yeah, I literally did that last night.

So I think it's just one of those things where, where we have to remind ourselves that, like, this is a, it's a long game.

It's not.

There's nothing happens immediately.

Nothing happens like at the turn of a button.

And like, we're not doing open heart surgery.

And so everything can wait 8 hours or 24 hours.

Like, nothing will burn down if there's not a response or whatever in eight hours or whatever, like the same day.

And so it's like giving yourself that space.

Be like, okay, you know what?

Like, some mornings I wake up and I'm like, I am completely unmotivated today and I cannot get anything done.

And I'm text Janessa and I'm like, I am having a morning.

My allergies are awful.

I didn't get a good night's sleep because my dog was sick.

Whatever.

I am just not feeling it.

You know what I do?

I don't work for a few hours and I just take a slow morning.

I maybe read a book.

I have a coffee and I relax.

But maybe Saturday it's pouring rain and disgusting out, and I'm doing laundry all day, and I hop on my laptop and I do six hours of super productive, mindful work.

Right?

Yeah.

And so you, like, I kind of go with my energy too.

Like, where are my energy?

Like, if there's nothing.

If there's nothing else that's a positive to being an entrepreneur and a founder.

It's the fact that you really can create your own schedule.

And so it's like, outside of that 9 to 5, where there's some of those things you need to respond to, you can kind of do your work whenever you feel like it.

And like.

Like, that is one of the perks.

Take advantage of it.

Yes.

When do you have the most energy, the most motivation?

Do it then.

Man, that's awesome.

I. I remember talking to a founder who said, as an employee, I was horrible because I had to work a 9 to 5.

That wasn't when my energy kicked in.

And when.

When I became a founder and could work on my own, I could work on my own hours.

Is like my productivity went through the roof because I could finally work in a way that went with who I am as an individual.

And I'm like, wow.

Yeah, like, we don't think about that.

Right.

When we put our nine to five hours for our business opening hours.

And that's the thing, right.

Is like, the flexibility.

Like, there's.

I don't want to say there's not a lot of perks to being a founder or entrepreneur, but like you said, it's a hard journey.

It is an absolute roller coaster.

It can be really, really difficult at times.

And so it's like, man, if you're not taking advantage of, like, one of the perks you got.

Come on.

You know, it's like the one thing you can really take advantage of, especially at a really early stage.

You know, my co founder is on the west coast, so, like, she's not logged on kind of till my late morning or midday.

So I'm like, if I lose a morning, like, nothing happens and I just work later or work on the weekend or.

And, you know, and that's why people are like, oh, you're working on the weekend?

I'm like, yeah, because I didn't do anything for half a day on Thursday, you know?

And so again, it's.

It's more weaving the work into your life versus finding a balance.

I mean, I guess at the end of the day, it is balancing it all out, but I think it's.

It's really using your Energy, like the way it's coming to you, like, also just like listening to your body can be just really, really beneficial.

And I think it, it makes for a better business and a better leader too.

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely.

You have been known as a champion for inclusivity collaboration for women founders.

You've invested in five women founder startups.

What does inclusivity and collaboration in tech mean?

So there's a lot of stuff that's like, oh, it's for women by women, or for women exclusively, or like, it's for women, but then you look at the fine print and it's actually like, oh, it's a woman focused thing.

But in fact, male co founders can get the funding.

Yeah, True fact.

Wow.

And so it's one of those things where like, I think there's a lot of performatism.

I do think that there's a lot of groups and I think there's a lot of communities who really do, like, maybe even have the best interests at heart.

But like, they, there's like a lack of communication or a lack of organization or things like that.

So I think there's a lot of like, good intentions in the ecosystem.

Like, I think there's a lot of people trying, but I think the system is flawed.

And so I think we're really fighting against a tide that, you know, is just too strong a lot of the times, I mean, there's that report that came out in the summer, I don't remember what month, but feels like yesterday, but it was probably June, I don't even know anymore where it was showing how the, the wage gap in tech between men and women has actually increased.

No way.

Oh yeah, I'm happy to send it to you.

So it's actually increased quite significantly.

And so pay transparency, like number one should be like at the top of everybody's list.

Like, if we can't get paid the same for the same work, you're now trying to do more with less resources constantly.

And so I think like, there's a big one that like, is easy and it takes five seconds is putting a salary in that thing.

Because a lot of the times women will undervalue themselves.

And I see it constantly across the board where they're like, oh, I, you know, and we always say like, ask them for the band, ask them for like what the range is and then you give them what you prefer in that range.

And so many times, women, I've seen countless messages in some of the slack groups I'm in where it's like, man, I'M so glad I asked them first because, like, I was gonna ask for, like, 15,000 or 20,000 less than the lowest of their end.

Wow.

And this is like, people who are like, they're not, you know, they're not like, a 20 grand is a big.

100 to 80 is a big difference.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And now they're asking for, like, the middle of that band.

So now you might be like, 35 more than what you actually were going to ask for.

Right.

But if it's in there and it's like, it's like, if you're hiring somebody, you should know how much you're willing to pay that person, and that should be in the job description.

And so I think, like, the pay transparency piece is huge.

Like, people should be encouraged to talk about their pay at work.

Like, we shouldn't be, like, hushed for it or like, oh, like, it's a weird thing.

Like, don't talk about it or whatever.

I just fundamentally don't think that's good.

So, like, that's an easy one.

I think too, like, there's a big push or like, a big kind of accepted practice of consistently funding exited or, like, return founders.

And I understand, like, the mentality around it.

It's because, hey, if they've been successful once, maybe they have the secret sauce they can do it again.

Right.

The.

Even though I think statistically speaking, the likelihood is the same or less that their second venture will be successful or as successful.

But the problem is women have only really been strongly in tech for a short period of time.

And especially when you're looking at, like, women of color and, like, more intersectionally.

And so if we're funding all of the same people who were successful 5, 10, 15 years ago funding a second thing, what does that look like?

Like, that's the same type of person that we're funding again.

Yeah.

Right.

And we're already facing, like, a lot of barriers.

I. I often think about the fact that when we are talking to VCs, especially in, like, the investment space.

Coming from finance, too.

I'm in my mid-30s.

My co founder is, like, early mid-30s.

I often think about, or actually do somehow weave into conversation that I don't plan to have children because I know that it may not be every single person that's talking to us, but somebody on that committee like, that was on that call is thinking about the fact that, like, well, if we give them $2 million today, what are they gonna like, and are they just gonna go on Matt leave next Year.

Yeah.

I know multiple founders who have hid their pregnancies while fundraising.

And they're very successful.

And they knew, like, they're the people that have come in and like, got, you know, during their mat leave and everything were like, everything was great.

Nothing happened, the business didn't suffer.

And so I think there's just so many systemic things.

And I mean, I'm.

I don't know if you've heard of, like, the glass cliff.

Right.

There's the glass ceiling, which we're always trying to shatter.

The glass cliff is essentially when you're bringing in a woman, and it's usually, I would say, at more of an executive level, when you're bringing in a woman to try and like, fix a failing company and you kind of set her up for failure, it's like, you're not putting her in a position to succeed.

She's a scapegoat.

And so the glass cliff can be equally as bad as that glass ceiling.

And so we just.

I think, I mean, you know, it's definitely it.

I could probably speak another hour just on this topic alone.

But the things that I'm hearing that, like, women are still facing is so incredibly disappointing.

And just everything from like, oh, well, like femtech doesn't matter because it only affects women.

And it's like, that's half the population.

So that's kind of a big market, you know, and you hear even, like, just like, even.

I know it sounds silly because it's like, how does this relate to, like, your everyday life?

But it's like last year, the report, a couple months ago, the report came out that, like, tampons are filled with lead and like, other like, pollutants and things.

And it's like that causes issues in our bodies.

Yeah.

Hormone imbalances cause fatigue, cause headaches, cause nausea, cause blood clots, like, whatever you want to call it.

Like, you don't think that's going to impact my day to day on how I can run a company or how I can lead?

Of course it will.

Right.

And so it's like we face so many of these, like, tiny little barriers.

And like, I'm a white woman who has a great network.

I am like the privilegedest of the women that out.

That are out there.

You know what I mean?

And I recognize that.

And so I think it's like to think about all these little things that we're constantly battling against.

And so a big thing I always say is it's.

It's the responsibility of men to hold other men accountable because the man who's like being a misogynist or who's like maybe saying inappropriate things.

You know what?

He doesn't care about my opinion.

He doesn't care that I stand up to him.

He doesn't care that I tell him not to do it.

He's going to care when another man says that.

It's pure.

It's pure.

Yeah, yeah.

I think it's, it's a huge responsibility of men, like not to just not do it, but to actively speak up, up against it because like the silence is like complicit type thing is really, really true.

And one of the I'm like, all like, I'm almost through a book called Men who Hate Women.

And I highly recommend any man who wants to be an ally to women.

I highly, highly recommend they read it because it kind of delves into some of the incel movements, the men's rights movements, the men going their own way movements, like all of that, like kind of the underground stuff, if you will.

But it explores how it also leaks into our daily lives and how insidious it can be on like an actual, like, societal level.

And I think there's a lot of men who just, they're good people, but they truly don't understand the level of stuff that women deal with regularly.

Yeah.

And so I think like reading things like that and understanding like the amount of hate that can truly be like, out there for us is really important.

And you know, like, I, there's plenty of men in the ecosystem.

I absolutely adore there.

It's not like I'm sitting here like, ugh, I never want to talk to a man again.

There's a number of people who I like actively will support and talk about and everything because they're wonderful people and they're, they've always been wonderful people and they are those champions and those people who speak up.

And it's like, you just gotta pay us more and you gotta believe us and you gotta just like let us do things our way.

Because us becoming men and running companies like men is not our way.

That doesn't mean that's full.

It just means that we lead differently and that we're going to build different types of companies.

Like, I think a lot of statistics also are showing that like, women are generally the ones who are building climate tech companies.

You know, it's like those are things that, it's like there's a different level there of like, care that we're putting into companies because, like, we're not selling a calendar, scheduling software like, we are trying to change people's culture, health.

Right?

Things like that really matter.

And so, I don't know.

It's.

It's.

It's tough.

And, like, sometimes it really feels like, what's the point?

Like, I. I'm not gonna pretend like, there aren't days where you.

This young woman I know, she wants to be a software developer.

She's in school.

And this is, like, right now, October 2024, that this happened writes me a message being like, oh, like, my senior was, like, telling me that I.

If I want to have kids and, like, get married and settle down, I should just, like, stay in the government.

And then he said it to her again in a second conversation a week later.

And it's like, why are you discouraging this person?

Like, if she has aspirations and she has goals, and she's like, I don't know, 23 years old or 22 years old, whatever she is, right?

She's in school, she's young, 20s.

Yeah.

What does that have to do with anything?

Like, why not?

Like, what do you want to achieve in life?

Right?

What are the things you want to work on?

What interests you?

Right?

Like, that's what matters.

And so many women founders I know have had questions of like, oh, well, are like, you have a kid, Will you need to pay yourself more to afford daycare, like, from investors?

Is that something we need to worry about?

Is your salary needing to go up because you have to pay for child care because you're not the one taking care of the child?

Right.

Yeah.

And that's a question that.

That a man would never get yet.

Never.

Yeah.

And, like, all the assumptions, too.

Like, I know plenty of women founders who are the CEOs, but, like, bring in their CTOs, and, like, the CTO is asked the financial questions because they assume, oh, the man must be the CEO.

Or it's all that kind of stuff that, like, perpetuates consistently and becomes really difficult to deal with.

And so I think, like, you know, in those kind of conversations, if there's a man sitting there and hears that type of stuff, it's like, that needs to be like, no, like, who's the CEO?

Who's in charge here?

Like, ask the question, get the clarification, and talk versus, like, making assumptions right off the bat.

Yeah.

No, I love it.

No, it's.

You're right.

Like, it's something that I think unless you're a woman, you can't understand.

Right.

Like, I don't even pretend for a second to know any of the challenges that women face.

Why I'm not a woman, I'm a white man.

Completely different situation.

Right.

And so I think it's important, you know, that we come to it from that point where we try to understand, not just, you know, assume.

Yeah.

Well, and I think too, like, you know, a lot of people have asked if I've experienced any misogyny during the fundraising process, but I haven't, for the record.

I haven't experienced anything outright towards me or my co founder, at least when I've been present or that I know of.

But.

And that's a big but.

I am pretty well connected to media.

I am generally a very outspoken person who likes, like, isn't really scared in general of.

Of anyone's power, if you will.

And I have an incredible network of people who I can be like, even if it's underground, being like, you might want to watch out for this person because.

And that, you know, the ecosystem's not that big.

Like, it's really not that big.

Yeah.

And that underground network that women have, which exists is like, very, very crucial to our safety.

And so I think part of the reason I haven't experienced it, though, is that because I would be telling that story immediately.

And so.

And because I have that network, like, it's a lot harder to, I guess, like, bully me or.

Sure.

Or anything like that because I just, I'm.

I'm not somebody who's like, scared of.

Of speaking out.

And I.

And for the record, I fully understand why there are plenty of people who are terrified of speaking out.

So, like, I respect that and I understand that.

But then I also feel like it's kind of my responsibility in a way where, like, I feel safe to do it, that I need to do it.

Like the people who feel safe.

It's similar, like a man standing up for people like women.

Right.

I feel like I'm in a position of safety, so I can stand up for those people who maybe can't stand up for themselves.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, incredible, Laura, you keep it up.

We absolutely need more people like you in this world.

But before we close up today, I want to spend some time on ecological because.

Or Ecologica.

Sorry.

It is very cool.

I was trying to understand it actually, when I hopped in.

Is it an air purifier?

Yeah.

So we.

We're an Iot company, so Internet of Things.

We have hardware and software.

Our hardware is a version of an air purifier.

So instead of.

Yeah.

You're not, you're not off base with.

That I'm just like, okay.

If I was comparing it to other things I've seen, it looks like an air purifier.

So the main difference being that while we do have filters on our products, mostly for, like, peace of mind for people, if I'm honest with you, we create a tiny little free radical particle called the hydroxyl.

And hydroxyls are what's responsible for fresh air outdoors.

So it's like, like created by mother nature outside, but we essentially bring fresh air inside so that air that you, like, might smell at, like, a cottage or the mountains, and you're like, oh, like, I sleep better everything.

We make that indoors, so we, like, manufacture that air inside.

Wow.

And what's cool.

Yeah, yeah.

So like, we literally change the molecular composition of your air.

So what it does is these hydroxyls essentially break apart the DNA chains of contaminants in the.

In the air or pollutants, so they can't replicate.

And so instead of waiting on, like, the VOCs or like, the COVID particles to go to the filter, and like, most filters have little to no viral efficacy, for example, so.

Or like VOCs and like, particulate matter are not really picked up.

Like, you'll see a lot of dust on those things, but you don't see a lot of the stuff that gets.

You don't see the things that get through, like, literally.

And so, so the hydroxyl particles actually, like, actively seek those things out.

And so it cleans your air kind of on a different level than like, a regular filter would.

And so there's, like, viral efficacy.

There's efficacy against, like, the VOCs and mold and the PM2.5, which is, like, a particulate matter that's responsible for, like, neurodegenerative disorders and stuff.

Like, people don't realize how impacted we are by air quality and especially indoors.

Yeah, more air quality tends to actually be worse than outdoors.

And the more energy efficiency we've done is, like, the more we've sealed the buildings completely shut with no airflow.

And so it's actually become worse for our health, better for, like, the planet overall, technically, but significantly worse for our health indoors.

And so there's like.

Like, it's linked to, like, early onset and, like, regular Parkinson's suicide rates, obesity.

Like, it's really.

Because essentially the main thing is it causes inflammation in every body system.

Wow.

And these particles, if it's causing inflammation in the brain for a prolonged period of time, that's going to affect your mental health.

Right.

It's just it that that's just a fact.

Right.

And so it's those types of like the, the inflammatory markers and stuff like that like really tend to go up with bad air quality.

And you know, I know there's a lot of like anti inflammatory foods going around now on TikTok and like, things like that.

But it's like a lot of the times we don't think about this.

The thing that we do every, you know, 20 seconds of every day or whatever it is like is breathing.

Right.

And then on the data side what we do is we basically couple the environmental data and like the health data and we layer it together to give like that holistic perspective of like okay, how is like our system impacting your sleep, your asthma symptoms, like whatever our customer dashboards like want to bring in in terms of that.

But we do it on like the micro level of like the building and the macro level of like the city.

So we take both into account.

And then essentially like with all of that data collection we've started to build out like a predictive health model.

And so what it does is, it basically is like the environmental determinants of health is how we're like what we're looking at.

And so it'll say like, okay, like in this year, you know, this much of this particulate matter that's linked to Parkinson's was like in the air.

We predict that this year based on like that other data, it's going to first time hospitalizations are going to go up by X percent.

Right.

Like those are the kind of models that we're creating.

And so we're hoping to be kind of a public, public health authority on the environmental determinants of health and how we can be more proactive both for our own personal health, but also as like a system holistically of like how can we plan for some of the things that are coming down the line knowing what we've been breathing for the past X amount of years.

Wow.

So you're, you're essentially going to be able to predict health challenges and health breakouts in entire cities just based on.

The data that you're collecting, long term outcome.

And you know, obviously a lot of people are kind of like, well you were a data company or a hardware company.

And I'm like, well we're both, because frankly our hardware, we collect the data through hardware.

So we, we have that as like an enablement to our data.

But also on a like a moral and like values level, we don't feel good or right about getting rid of the hardware.

That can improve your health and like make your air healthier.

Like it's just like that feels.

We don't, we're not in the business of scaring people.

We're not in the business of being like let me monitor your space and be like this is all the things that are going to go wrong.

Right.

It's like we also want to try and give you a solution.

And so yeah, it's really, it was really important to us to keep that hardware piece and to not just focus on like the long, long term data play, but also on like the shorter midterm, like actually improving people's lives play.

It's pretty cool because you know, I mean even if we find out that there's going to be a massive problem, we need the solution to the problem.

And in a certain way you've kind of made both in one and even though the solution exists, it's almost like you need time to build the data to go along with it.

But you can say the whole time the solution's been here, the whole time we, we have it.

Can you talk to me about, about the two products?

I believe it's a breeze and the refresh, the two different models you have.

Yeah, so basically the small one is super tiny.

Like it's the size of a modem essentially.

That's the breeze and that's the one I sleep with in my bedroom every single night without fail.

I travel with it.

Like I'll throw it in my carry on.

I go to hotels like anytime.

I always bring it with me because you just never know what allergies or like must you might get into or whatever depending on where you're traveling to.

It literally looks like an old modem.

Like much better looking in all fairness, but same size.

We are, we are in R D to like scale the product and like make do some more natural like sustainable looking cases for it.

So yeah, stay tuned and hopefully by the time this is airing we have that.

By the time I put this up, it might be, you might have four more models.

Will be there and ready long before this airs.

And so but we, we are, our intention is to keep a smaller product like that and it works to about 160ish square feet.

So a bedroom, an office, you know, something like that.

That's been our most popular product for like hotel rooms.

So all of our hospitality customers essentially we've had some that have bought the refresh for like employee areas or like those common areas.

But a lot of the times what they're doing is like they're putting that little breeze on the nightstand inside a room and calling it a day.

And like that's what they're using especially for like some of these allergy free floors and like things that some hotels have started to do.

Gotcha.

And then yeah, the larger product, the refresh actually has a bit of a monitor on it like on the unit itself.

It's just like a 1 to 4 and stuff like so it's like good to bad.

There's no like actual actual numbers of like the particulate matter and stuff like that because it freaked people out when we were doing some of our R D. So we wanted to kind of make it a little less scary for people because again, not in the business of fear.

I know it's an effective selling tool, but that's just not how we operate.

And so the larger one like, I mean it works very similar to the breeze.

It's obviously bigger, it's more of a floor size and it's about 850 square feet.

So that would be more of like an actual condo or one of the common, common spaces, you know, a condo, gym or like a mixed use, like a cafe, whatever.

So we tend to go into more on the mixed use side with those types of things.

We are in like the COVID wing of a hospital with a number of those units and things like that.

But generally speaking it's, it's more the size of the space that it has capacity for.

That's the main differentiator.

They both have some washable filters.

They both have one filter that needs to be replaced generally every like three to six months depending on how good you are at washing the other ones ones.

But, but they both kind of do the, the same thing.

It's just in a different size capacity.

Wow.

And I was just looking to Fairmont as a partner.

Marriott International Ballplex Wendy's Oxford Learning.

Wow, that's incredible.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's been really, it's been a really fun journey and again we are rolling out to the, the Ronald McDonald Houses of Alberta.

So we're super excited about that.

So we'll be in all of their locations, a few units just so that folks who are staying there can, can sign them out actually.

So that's gonna be the method that we use.

But we're really excited to like try and make a difference not just kind of on the wellness in the workplace side, but also in places like those where there's a lot of immunocompromise, there's a lot of like, like the it really truly, like, can maybe the difference between you seeing your child that day or maybe not seeing your child that day.

So that partnership is, I think, really meaningful to us.

Us.

I think that's incredible.

And I think, you know, I mean, especially for offices that are looking for a solution, you know, to keep their staff more healthy, especially while, you know, operating in the area, it makes a whole lot of sense.

And really the cost, even for your larger unit isn't that bad.

What's $1,400 for the initial system and then 65 bucks for filters?

Like, no.

Like, it seems like a small price to pay considering you're probably paying that every time a person's away sick.

Yeah, well, a lot of people, like, it's funny because a lot of people, I think they're becoming more and more educated on like sick building syndrome, for examp example.

So it's like that when you're like in a space and all of a sudden you're like, I feel really tired or I have a headache or like, you're just not kind of yourself.

But then when you leave or maybe you go home, you're like, why am I totally fine?

But it happens consistently.

So it's something called sick building syndrome.

And it's affected, like many things, affected acoustics and lighting.

And so there's like a lot of different branches.

But air quality is like a huge.

I think it's like three out of the eight symptoms are like related to air quality, and so.

Or three out of the eight things are related to air quality.

The symptoms tend to be kind of all over the place.

But a lot of the times I think we just think like, oh, I'm tired, or I didn't sleep well, or I'm just fatigued, maybe I'm getting sick.

But we don't really attribute it to anything.

And as I joined Ecologica, I mean, my journey to join was really interesting because I actually saw Janessa pitch.

Like, that's how this all started was like, I saw her pitch, I was like, like, this is amazing.

This is so cool.

I can't even wrap my head around this, like, category defining stuff, right?

Like, that's how it felt to me at the time.

And at the time I had been diagnosed with pcos, I'd gotten blood test results back.

I had a lot of inflammation in my body.

Never thought about the fact that it could be my house or like the air in my house potentially affecting that, and started talking to her.

At the time, I was still on a sabbatical and I was like, oh, my God, I need to introduce you to everybody I know.

Sort of doing all the intro emails.

Angel invested in the company and then actually joined from there.

Joined for a few months and then a few months later she was like, you know what?

I feel like we're very values aligned, but we have very different sets of skills and you bring a lot of value to the company in very different ways than I can.

Like, will you step in as the co founder?

So it was a very interesting journey and somebody asked me the other day, like, is it normal for angel investors to become co founders?

And I was like, honestly not.

Probably not.

Apparently don't do anything.

Really quite the normal ways.

It worked out.

It's been working out really well.

Like, we've had an absolute blast together.

And like, I think there's so much love and respect between us and we really trust each other's opinions and gut feelings, which are so important when you're an entrepreneur, to trust that gut.

And so it's been, it's been an amazing journey.

But, you know, I've also been somebody who's like, I'll never be a founder.

It's not really my jam.

And then literally she asked me and then six days later I launched what in the tech.

So it was like a double whammy in the span of a week, which.

Which was very much not what I ever expected my life to be.

But.

But I think, yeah, it's.

It's been a really wonderful journey and I can't wait to see kind of what else happens for us.

That's incredible, Laura.

You know, we've been talking about it.

If people are listening and they're like, hey, I need to see this thing, what's the best place for them to order a machine from?

So the best place is probably our website, ecologica.com and if you have any questions or, you know, you want to ask anything from me, you're always welcome.

Like, feel free to reach out on LinkedIn or comment on, on any of our posts or anything like that.

We'll always try our best to get back to you.

Amazing.

Well, thank you, Laura.

It's been an absolute honor having you on the show.

We've been chatting with Laura Gabor, co founder and COO of Ecologica.

Absolutely incredible angel investor.

Gave us the tips, told us the stories.

Thanks for joining us, Laura.

It was incredible.

Thank you so much for having me.

I really appreciate the conversation and hope it was valuable to those listening.

And I can't wait to see where we're at in a year or two, maybe we'll check back in.

It'll be pretty cool.

You're gonna have to keep me posted on things happening and I'll make sure that when this show's released, if new things have happened, it's all up on the show page for you.

Perfect.

Sounds great.

Amazing.

Until next time, this has been episode 270 of the Business Development Podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.

see you next time on the Business Development Podcast.