What Alberta Strong Really Means with Mckinley Hyland

What Alberta Strong Really Means with Mckinley Hyland

Mckinley Hyland: it's hard to really like explain to someone what it is, but you're, you're getting paid for basically your absence, your sacrifices. What you're, what you're missing out on is, is what you're getting paid.

Kelly Kennedy : Mm-hmm.

Mckinley Hyland: And I mean, sure, like 35 bucks an hour, that's a lot of money. Fresh outta school.

And, uh, like, let's go up to the Alberta oil sands, or let's go up to Grand Prairie or, or wherever. Let's go on this project, this pipeline project and uh, you know, work six twelves. So six days in a row, you work 12 hour days and then you have Sundays off, but you're, you know, you're 800 kilometers from home.

So you're not driving home.

Kelly Kennedy : No.

Mckinley Hyland: With, you got 16 hours of driving if you drive there and back.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: So you're not driving home. So that 35 bucks an hour now you know, for, I mean, what's 12 times six would be 72 hours or 70, yeah, 72 hours. So you're getting paid for 72 hours, but you're gone for the whole, you're gone seven times 24.

So what does that work out to? Hourly. I mean, you're less than minimum wage for being gone from home. Don't get to see your family. Thank God things have changed. I don't know how they did it back in the day where you'd have to go find a hill to park on to call your wife on a satellite phone once a week.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: There's no way I would've made it. Like 0%. It's a, those were, those guys were different animals. I don't know how, and my dad was one of them. I don't know how they did it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how they did it. And even still now, like the mental health in the oil and gas industry and maybe I'm biased because I don't see any of the other industries, but I can't count on both hands how many guys I know that, uh, are no longer with us.

Mm-hmm. I wouldn't attribute that to oil and gas or, or the industry, but I would attribute it to the lifestyle that you live.

Intro: The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years. Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal, and we couldn't agree more.

This is the Business development podcast, based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. In broadcasting to the world, you'll get expert business development advice, tips, and experiences, and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs, and business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business,

brought to you by Capital Business Development Capitalbd.ca.

Let's do it. Welcome. To the Business Development Podcast, and now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly Kennedy : Hello, welcome to episode 306 of the Business Development Podcast, and today it is my absolute pleasure to bring you Mckinley Hyland. Mckinley is a leader in the world of non-destructive testing and the visionary behind Maverick NDT Inspection Inc.

With over a decade of expertise in radiography, welding, and advanced inspection techniques, he has built a company that isn't just keeping up with industry advancements, it's setting the pace. By integrating AI into NDT, Mckinley is pioneering a future where inspections are faster, smarter, and more precise than ever before.

His commitment to innovation, quality, and industry leading technology has positioned him at the forefront of a rapidly evolving. But his journey isn't just about business growth and cutting edge advancements. As an entrepreneur, Mckinley has faced the challenge of building a thriving company while maintaining a fulfilling family life.

Through years of trial adaptation and relentless drive, he has learned what it takes to lead with purpose while keeping his priorities in check. His story is one of resilience, evolution, and pursuit of success without sacrificing what matters most. Mckinley also holds a special place in the business development podcast history.

Nearly 300 episodes ago, he was our very first guest sharing his insights and fearless approach to entrepreneurship. At the time, he was already making waves in the NDT industry, but his journey since then has been nothing short of extraordinary. Seeing how far he has come, pushing the boundaries of innovation, scaling his business and mastering the balance of leadership and family is truly inspiring.

Mckinley, it's an honor to have you back.

Mckinley Hyland: Thanks, man. The geez, you, well you said you had an handle. That's a, that's a good one. What an intro.

Oh my God. I don't think catchy PT could've wrote that one. That's wild.

Kelly Kennedy : Well, you've done some stuff, man. And you know, we've stayed connected throughout the whole time and you know, I've said it many times, but I'm gonna say it again.

Thank you so much for believing in me, believing in this show, taking a gigantic gamble as our very first guest of the Business Development podcast, and of course, financially sponsoring us for a period of time. Dude. You have been instrumental in the success of this show. I owe you a ton. And I just wanna say thank you from the bottom of my heart, 300 episodes later.

It's hard to believe we're here, but thank you for believing in me and believing in us. We wouldn't be here without you.

Mckinley Hyland: Man. We all need someone to believe in us at some point. I mean, at the end of the day, uh, sometimes your own belief just isn't enough. You need other people too. And, uh, hey man, you've done great.

You've, uh, the show is blown up. You're doing a, you're doing a wicked job, dude, so keep on keeping at it and we'll see you in another 300 episodes.

Kelly Kennedy : I'm gonna do my best, man. I have no plans of quitting yet, so, uh, yeah, man. Maybe we're just getting started. Who knows? Dude, I wanna just chat with you though, because 300 episodes ago, you know, maybe our listeners have, have found you.

Were not, we have a lot of catalog space to. I did some digging. We have, at this point in time, and we're actually recording almost a full year in advance, but at this point in time, we have over seven full days of content of the business development podcast. Totally. It's a roll of the dice, whether or not anyone even goes back and listens to episode eight.

So I wanna just treat this a little bit like it's our first interview. Sure. Take me back to the beginning, dude. You know, who is Mckinley Hyland. Talk about your journey with us.

Mckinley Hyland: Oh man. Who is Mckinley Hyland? I was born in Calgary, came back to Medicine Hat, uh, with my mom. And, uh, I, I grew up playing sports and doing all that fun stuff.

My stepdad, who my mom married shortly after, uh, when I was like three. My stepdad was, was, uh, in the non-destructive testing business. Um, so we moved down here and, uh. Yeah, spent a lot of time, you know, just hanging out at my dad worked on the, my stepdad worked on the road a lot. So I spent a lot of time with my mom.

Didn't have didn't have a real, like, male or role model until my dad started working at home a lot more when I was, I don't know, maybe 12 or 13. And, uh, yeah, so, it's hard to kind of count everything that's happened up to this point. But you know, my dad started his own company, uh, when he was, oh, I don't know how old he would've been then.

Maybe 42, 43, something like that.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: He ended up exiting that company, uh, within a year, year and a half. And then just was a subcontractor for the rest of it. And uh, yeah, now he, now he works with us. He subcontracts to us. He's really the, the, he was the real motivator, you know, when he started his business and, uh, he started it with two partners.

And I just thought that was so cool to say my dad owned a business.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, and I don't know if it was like a, I don't know if it was like an ego thing or, uh, or what it was, but I just thought it was so cool. I had a, a neighbor of mine, his dad owned a business, and for some reason I always just look, my auntie owns a business.

My uncle owns multiple businesses. Um, my other uncle owns a steel fabrication facility, so I guess I've been surrounded by business owners and entrepreneurship my whole life.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, my, my real dad was a, a innovator, I would say. Like he had many, many patents. And, uh, so I guess you could say it's kind of in my blood to, to, uh.

To be an entrepreneur or to to be self-employed? Um, I don't really like authority. Not that, I don't mean that in a, in a condescending way. I just, I don't really like someone telling me what to do or how to do it or what the best way is. And, uh, yeah, that's, that's kind of what led me to, to ending up starting my own business in the long run was that, you know, I had some ideas that fell on deaf ears and at multiple different points in my life.

And, uh, finally I just said, well, if you guys aren't gonna let me do it, I'll just do it my own way and we'll see what happens.

Kelly Kennedy : It's, uh.

Mckinley Hyland: So here we are.

Kelly Kennedy : It's interesting because I've talked with, at this point probably about 150 people. And one of the funny things that I've seen along that path is that people that grow up in entrepreneurial families tend to take the jump to be entrepreneurs.

And I, and I kind of think about it from that standpoint. It's like, of course, like with you. Most of the people closest to you ran their own businesses or multiple businesses. You didn't see a lot of like emulation of the other way of people that like went to work as employees, like maybe other than your friends and maybe cousins or whatever, but like so many of the people around you who were influential to you were entrepreneurs and on a certain level it set you up for success.

And I wonder, you know, that pride, that pride in your dad being an entrepreneur, you know, I can guarantee you your kids feel the exact same way about you. And what will that say in the future about their own choice to maybe take on entrepreneurship?

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, and I think that, you know, I, I, like I said, I don't know what it was, but I, I felt like when my dad started his company and I was, I was young, like, like I said, like when he started that company I was maybe 10 or 11.

And um, and he went and worked on the road for quite some time when he, when he did that. But I just remember saying like. Or thinking or saying to my friends, you know, my dad owns a business or, and I was probably bragging, looking back at it now, being a kid.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, but, you know, it was something that I didn't have, like, it was new to me at that point.

I, it was a world that we kind of had stepped into as a family. And it was all that I, I heard about, you know, because there's, uh, with any business, when you start it, you're talking to your spouse or your wife or your friends or your family, and you're talking about the issues and the what's good and what's bad.

And, and, you know, the dealership won't let me buy a truck because I have no credit, because I've only been employed for this long. And like, it, it's the topic of the conversation all the time. And, you know, I, I do wonder about my kids sometimes because Maverick, my son, he is gonna be, well, he'll be eight when this comes out, but, uh, he, I started really using Maverick NDT and, and made it a named company when.

When me and his mom found out that we were pregnant with him, and that's where Maverick NDT came from, was from his name, even though he hadn't been born yet. But he never really got to see too much of the, he doesn't know any other way. Yeah. Like, he never saw the, he never saw the any, like the, the real hard stuff we'll say.

I mean, there's hard stuff now, don't get me wrong. Just, it's just as hard as it was back then. It's just on a different level and you know how to, you know, how to deal with the stress a little bit better and, and cope with it. But yeah, I really do wonder how it'll affect them and, and what they'll end up doing.

I find myself asking, asking Maverick more specifically because he's, he's old enough now that I can actually have an you know, an adult conversation kind of with him and he understands. And, um, I ask him pretty often, like, what do you think you're gonna do when you grow up? And, and, uh. I mean, be an NHL player comes up here and there, but other than that, I don't think he, he is not too sure.

And

Kelly Kennedy : yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I mean, if you asked me back then, I think I probably would've said I was gonna do the same thing, be an NHL player or something like that, so, yeah.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, but yeah, I, I wonder how that will emulate on them, and, and I wonder how they, it's a good question. I guess, we'll, we'll check back on episode 600, see if there's still, see what he's thinking then.

Kelly Kennedy : Well, man, I think it's, um, man, I, I kind of think we're hard on kids in general, to ask any kid, even like a grade 12 kid, they are still kids. I'm gonna throw that out there for my young people listening. I'm sorry. Like. There's so much to learn still. Even if you are 17, 18, the, the life is still very much ahead of you.

I had no idea, Mckinley, what I wanted to do at 18, 19. Even in college. I went to business school because I had no idea what I wanted to do. I just knew that if I went to business school, that opened up the doors of pretty much everything so I could then make a choice. Right? Even in business school, I never learned about business development.

It wasn't until I was working for Engrity Inspection that I even like was informed as to what it is and that I might be good at it.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy : And even then, dude, it took me years and years and years to develop a passion for it. I wasn't immediately good at it as nobody is. Yeah, it took a long time of building relationships and finding new business and then finding reward, like intrinsic reward in that, and then eventually getting to a point where I was ready to do it for myself.

But, it's so funny, dude, like, you know, 16, 17, 18-year-old Kelly. No this wouldn't have been the chosen life path, but it turned out to be pretty good anyway.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, it's, it's funny, I go, actually, my, my cousin he is going to, I think Mount Royal, uh, and he's going into business and, and well, he is been there for three years and he is majoring in supply chain management.

And, um, you know, you even, you ask him now, like, what are you doing? And he is like, I don't know. Right. Yeah. Um, I guess this leaves a little bit of room for, uh, I guess a little bit of advice or maybe just a touch of information from, from me on, on the, you know, the, you're, those are still kids. You know, you can, you can move on in life.

And, and I'm speaking directly to those, you know, 16, 18, 20-year-old people that. That feel like, you know, maybe they're not doing enough or they don't know what's going on. And, uh, I saw a clip of, uh, on LinkedIn yesterday, and the guy had a customer come in who was a young kid. He was 18 years old.

And he is a, this guy is a, he's a really, he's a wealthy, wealthy businessman. And, and, uh, the kid was asking him some questions and he said, I'm gonna tell you something. You are richer than I will ever be. You have something that I cannot have. I can give you the passwords to my bank account.

I can open the vault, I can give you all of it. It doesn't matter. You have time.

That's something that you can't buy it. I can't buy it. It doesn't matter if you got the world by the balls, you can't buy time.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: To those kids that are, you know, 16, 18, 20, 22. Hell, 25, 30, you got time.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. And so just use it, you know, in your intro. You said that, you know, I, I've really worked on finding a balance with my family and, uh, to be honest, that's where all this came from is being able to be in control of my time.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I'm still very much I'm still very much engaged in my business and, and you know, when the phone rings, I answer and, and deal with that stuff.

But ultimately being able to, to coach my kids lacrosse team and to go to, 80% of his hockey and get to see my daughter's first dance recital and all that stuff, that was, that's where all this came from because where. When I was working on the road and employed by someone who basically, if you say like, I can't go do that job, or Yeah, I'd love that six months project, but you know, I need this weekend and that weekend and this weekend offer.

I wanna be home every second weekend with my son.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I mean, you, you're not gonna be at the top of their list.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, and so that's where all this really came from, man, was that I wanted to be engaged and involved in my family.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I spent the first four years of my son's, well six years of my five years of my son's life working outta town.

Really just. I looked at those five years and said, I gotta set myself up here. I have to build relationships with these clients. I have to build relationships with our guys. I have to, and, and don't get me wrong, I still go when I need to go and when there's an opportunity to go, you know, shake hands and, and kiss babies on the forehead, I go do it.

But to me, this was the only way.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: It, it was the only way for me to, to be able to be present and, and be a part of my family in a truly meaningful way. And that's what business ownership was to me, was that it was my kind of out from the field. And that's, it's the biggest thing, man. It's, it's the most important thing to me.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Is my family.

Kelly Kennedy : And that's something I, I really wanna spend some time with you on today because it's something that I really admire about you. Sure. Yeah. We a conversation the other day when you were on vacation. I was like, oh, you're on vacation. You're like, yeah. Like this is what life's about. Like this is the whole point of everything else.

It's so that I can have this time with my family. Yeah. And I think for a lot of our listeners, and it's not their fault the Alberta oil and gas industry is a little bit hard to understand and I wanna kind of use you and your experience to teach them, to educate them what the Alberta Oil and gas sector is actually like.

Because, first off, we'll go into what is it like, or what is that work schedule like for so many Albertans. Just what they know because I think people, especially people from the east side of this country, maybe not Newfoundland there, there's pretty much mini mini Newfoundland here in Alberta.

But there's a lot of people in Ontario, Toronto who just see Alberta as like, well, you know, they're just, they're working for it. They just get this massive advantage of being Albertan. That's why they, they may call the money, but no money. There is a massive, massive sacrifice happening for Albertan families.

And you just kind of alluded to it, and we haven't talked to this in 300 episodes of the show. And so I think this is a great time maybe for you to educate the world, Mckinley, not just Canada, but the world on what is going on for Albertan Oil and Gas workers, because there's a lot of time being sacrificed, isn't there?

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, man, that's, uh, I mean, you, there, there's not very many industries you can go into and, and you know, you're making a hundred grand with a green hardhat on or, or with zero experience and no schooling and. That's not, uh, that's not because Alberta boys are built different, or Alberta girls or whatever.

It's not 'cause we're built different. It's because, we have industry, like we have tech and we have that stuff, we're not building very, very many high rises in medicine hat here. You know what I mean? So, like construction is the oil and gas industry. That's what we have. I mean, don't get me wrong, Calgary, Edmonton, I mean, you can build houses or be an electrician or be a plumber.

But ultimately, like if you, to me, it made no sense not to go into the oil and gas industry when I was young. It was a lot of money. It was all I knew. My, my dad, like I said, he started an NDT company, um, with a couple guys and, and that's what he did his whole life. My real dad was a, that.

Entrepreneur and, and he was a, a field operator before he passed away. And you know, it's, it's, uh, it's hard to really like explain to someone what it is. But you're getting paid for basically your absence, your sacrifices. What you're, what you're missing out on is, is what you're getting paid.

And I mean, sure, like 35 bucks an hour, that's a lot of money. Fresh outta school. And, uh, like, let's go up to the Alberta oil sands, or let's go up to Grand Prairie or, or wherever. Let's go on this project, this pipeline project and uh, you know, work six twelves. So six days in a row, you work 12 hour days and then you have Sundays off, but you're, you know, you're 800 kilometers from home.

So you're not driving home.

Kelly Kennedy : No.

Mckinley Hyland: With, you got 16 hours of driving if you drive there and back.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: So you're not driving home. So that 35 bucks an hour now, uh. For, I mean, what's 12 times six? It would be 72 hours or 70. Yeah, 72 hours. So you're getting paid for 72 hours, but you're gone for the whole, you're gone seven times 24.

Yeah. So what does that work out to? Hourly. I mean, you're less than minimum wage for being gone from home. Don't get to see your family. I mean, thank God things have changed. I don't know how they did it back in the day where you'd have to go find a hill to park on to call your wife on a satellite phone once a week.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: There's no way I would've made it. Like 0%. It's a, those were, those guys were different animals. I don't know how, and my dad was one of them. I don't know how they did it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how they did it. And even still now, like the mental health in the oil and gas industry and maybe I'm biased because I don't see any of the other industries, but I can't count on both hands how many guys I know that, uh, are no longer with us.

Mm-hmm. And. I wouldn't attribute that to oil and gas or the industry, but I would attribute it to the lifestyle that you live.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And based on and you know, the, the partying gets outta hand. The, you know, you come into it and you're 18 years old and, you know, all the 30 year olds are going out and they're, and eventually like, it, it's, it's not, it catches up to you.

Right. You know, there, there is a stigma when you get into the oil patch or the, the oil and gas industry still, and it's gotten better, but there still is a stigma that, you know, you, we go drink till 3:00 AM and get in the truck at six and go to work.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And I don't care if you're hungover, and I don't care if you miss your mom and dad.

I don't care if you miss your wife. We don't wanna hear about it because we all miss our wives too. Mm-hmm. So if we just don't talk about it, we don't think about it and it makes our day go by quicker. And that's not, we've done our best to, to mitigate that. You know, I've, I've had in the past, I've had guys call me and say, Hey man, like I, I need to go home.

I, you know, I'm not doing well. Or, you know, they'll, they'll drag up as we call it and say, Hey, I'm outta here. I gotta go spend some time with my wife or kids or whatever. And, uh, and so, you know, when that happens, it's basically I've, there's been plenty times before where I've hopped in my truck, drove up to Grand Prairie and went and covered for guys for two, three weeks and said, come back when you're ready, when you're in the head space to be here.

And if, if that never happens and you wanna go work a job that's local or whatever, that's fine. Yeah, that's totally okay. But I'm not gonna be the guy that's gonna offer you five bucks an hour more to stay because that's not doing you any favors and it's not doing me any favors.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, at the end of the day, this is, it's not easy. This is hard, man. Yeah. This is a really hard thing and a lot of people don't have the foresight to understand that this is what life looks like when you're 18 years old and all you see is the dollar signs.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: That's all you care about.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: You don't have a wife, you don't have kids, you don't have a dog to take care of.

You probably still live with your mom and dad, and if you don't, you rent a place with three buddies and rent doesn't pay itself. You know, it's a, it's an interesting landscape. And even going back, looking at it now, like I had so much fun when I got into this industry at 18 until I was 22 or 23. And, and too much fun.

I fell into that stigma, you know, doing the, you know, I, we were out drinking, I was doing drugs, I was partying. And that was the other big thing was like when I found out that we were having Maverick, I completely decided to turn my life around.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And I think that there's a lot of people that don't get that, or they're too far in the hole when that happens and they can't get out.

You know, you got a mortgage, you got bills, you got a wife depending on you, you got a baby on the way, what are you gonna do? You can't, you can't drop your salary in half. It doesn't work.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, so it is a, it, it is a, it's a vicious cycle. If you can't, and you can, my mom told me, my dad told me, you know, the money isn't there forever or, you know, it's gonna, at some point it dries up or save up for breakup or whatever.

And you don't do it.

Kelly Kennedy : No.

Mckinley Hyland: Nobody does. I don't know, one 18-year-old that had a bunch of money for breakup, not one. Yeah. Unless they were saving to go to school or something like that.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: None.

Kelly Kennedy : Not to mention, like, let's talk about the a hundred thousand dollars truck back in 2010. Right. Like probably a $200,000 truck today.

Mckinley Hyland: I mean, they're not cheap. Yeah. Yep.

Kelly Kennedy : My gosh.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. And everybody does it. There's not

Kelly Kennedy : everybody does it. Yep. And you can, it's not a joke. Everybody in Alberta does drive a pickup truck.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do.

Kelly Kennedy : Even in business development, like, let's take the other side to this. You know, there was an obligation to be there to show up, to put in the time, like no matter what, when I was like full level business development, right?

We're talking like 2013. If I needed to be in Calgary tomorrow, I was in Calgary. Tomorrow come hell, high water a blizzard. The worst storm you've ever seen a tornado. I literally drove through a tornado once, but like dude, I would drive to Esteban for a 30 minute lunch, 12 hours for a 30 minute lunch, 12 hours back and still finish my week.

There was something to be said about that Alberta work work ethic, like it was a real thing. It's still is a real thing.

Mckinley Hyland: Oh, for certain, for certain. And. I think that's just the way that people are brought up. Like, and, and say, you mentioned Newfoundland earlier. I mean, there's a lot of guys from out East that Oh yeah.

Come to work and you know, they, I wouldn't say it's necessarily in Albertan's bones or in, in Newfoundlanders bones, but what I would say is that as soon as you get into it, you either make it happen or you don't. You either cut it or you don't. And lots of guys get into this industry and find out real quick, they're not meant for this.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And that's okay. It's not for everybody.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, or they're not meant for the field side of it, or they're not meant, you know, they're not, and there's lots of people that go get desk jobs and go, Uhuh, not for me either. I wanna work with my hands, or, and so I, but I do think that it's, it's a lot of a lot about who you're surrounded with and how you grow up.

I mean, I grew up thinking that. You made money from hard work.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah, me too.

Mckinley Hyland: And that's how it was like it, there was no other, in my head, there was no other option. I remember one time I told my, my stepdad I wanted to be a lawyer. He was joking obviously, so it wasn't too bad. But he just looked at me and was like, you can't finish grade 10.

How are you gonna be a lawyer? Like what whatcha thinking man.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. Yeah. Well and uh, you know, there's still hope. I think if you wanna be a lawyer, it's still very possible for you Mckinley.

Mckinley Hyland: I get to argue with my wife every night. It's okay. That's good enough.

Kelly Kennedy : But the problem is as a lawyer, you'll get to win some arguments.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, yeah. Very true. No, maybe I should take that up. There you go. That's not a bad second career choice.

Kelly Kennedy : Oh man. Thank you so much for that. Thank you so much for that deep dive because. Literally, I don't think many people understand the true sacrifice that many Albertans, especially Albertan oil field workers make.

And they're amazing people. You know, I spent 10 years of my career working in the inspection industry as well. Just like you meeting tons and tons of people who sacrificed entire months of their lives, their, without seeing their families, you know? Yeah. So that the oil and gas industry could continue to thrive, really.

'cause that's what it takes at the end of the day. It really takes that consistent effort to keep this industry going. Yeah. So, you know, to our listeners today, I just wanna say, you know, if you look down on the oil and gas industry, that's who you're looking down on. You're looking down on, you know, millions of hardworking people from across this country who sacrifice.

The most valuable thing. They have their time so that their families can live a good life because that's really what it is. They don't necessarily get to live that great life with their families. Right. They're not always there for every recital. They don't make every lacrosse game most of the time, especially if they're doing pipeline work or stuff like that.

They're working six in ones and they're not going home on that one day. It's too far. They can't go. And so I just, I really appreciate that Mckinley. I, I like it coming from you because you still live that life, yeah. And you're doing better. You run your own company now, but you still have employees that do that life for you.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, so, so well, and, and yeah, that, sorry to cut you off. I just, there's, there's one other thing I'll, I'll throw in there. You can't forget the wives or the partners at home, man. Yes. 'cause I, uh, I used to be able to kind of put it to the side of my mind when, when I would leave and Janelle had both kids.

I'd go I knew it was hard, right. I knew it was tough on her to, you know, you gotta get this one there, this one there, you gotta pick this one up by this time, this one up by this time. And, uh, I knew it was hard, but I could also kinda negate that in my head by saying, well, I'm working hard too. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm staying in a hotel or whatever.

And, uh, but now, now that I've, I've been home for the majority over the last couple years, I've, I've mostly been at home and, you know, I'm sitting right now, I'm in my home office. And I spend a lot of time in here and I'm not always present. Even though I'm here, I'm not present in my family life that happens on the other side of that door.

Kelly Kennedy : I know what you mean.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, but I do see what she does.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I do see how hard this is and. It's something that goes unnoticed all the time, and I'm guilty of it. I'm still guilty of it. I still take it for granted. And so just that's another thing we gotta throw out there is to all you, all the wives, oil field wives, construction wives, all the wives really, I mean, yeah, let's be honest.

Like it, it's, uh. It's not as easy as they make it. Look, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you that much.

Kelly Kennedy : It's not. So thank you to the wives who really go above and beyond, because that's truly what it is when you, most of them are working too, which, you know, we, we always forget about. It's like they're doing their job and raising this family too.

And so you're absolutely right. I think there's many, many, many, many, many, many incredibly hardworking women out there who allow our lives to move forward. So thank you. Absolutely. From my side. Thank you. I'm sure from Mckinley's side.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah, dude, you are still deep into the oil and gas industry.

Two things for our listeners who maybe have never heard of non-destructive testing before. It's an absolutely critical piece of the oil and gas industry of the integrity industry, making sure things don't blow up, making sure that things continue to, to move forward as they need to. Can you maybe just do a quick introduction for our listeners as to what non-destructive testing is, and then if you could also lead that into a pulse on Alberta's oil and gas industry.

How are we doing?

Mckinley Hyland: Sure. Non-destructive testing. Radiography, ultrasound, this is the easiest way to explain it because a lot of people can relate to this. So radiography you know, you break your arm, you go get an x-ray they say, oh yeah, you can see a crack right there, or you can see where it's broken, whatever.

Uh, so radiography, you know, we do that on all, all sorts of components. Primarily what we're doing it on is, is new construction stuff. So just like if you go get your arm X-rayed, we're x-raying piping. And not just piping vessels, all that stuff. And we're looking at the welds. We're looking inside the welds to make sure that there's no voids or no cracks, no you know, inclusions, that that can be detrimental.

Um, there's a code that we have to abide by, or construction code and, and, um, so that's radiography, ultrasound I mean, women will know what ultrasound is. You know, you think you're pregnant. They put some goop on your belly and, and, uh, they, they pump sound waves into your tummy and they bounce back, and the sensor will tell you.

What's in there and what's happening, what's going on? So, I mean, that's what ultrasound is. They, they do that. Uh, there's different types of ultrasound ShearWave which is uh, more in depth ultrasound. There's PAUT, which is, I still really can't wrap my head around exactly what's happening with PAUT.

We're, uh, we're not super involved in the, on the ut side of things. We have a another company that we've partnered with.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: That, uh, provides all that stuff for us and we provide all their radiography. So that's kind of the two, the two main ones would be, would be radiography and, and ut. Um, and then there's a bunch of different smaller methods.

You know, positive material identification, making sure that, uh, dissimilar metals are, when they're welded together, that uh, the composition of that weld isn't gonna cause corrosion or isn't gonna cause it to, to, be. To not work together. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, there's mag particle, liquid penetrant.

This is stuff that's, it's mostly for surface indications. There's hardness testing, there's fer right. Testing, there's spark testing, there's all sorts of different stuff. But what the end NDT industry does is, is more or less, it's a, it's the quality side of the oil and gas industry. It's what makes sure the reason when we put pipe in the ground we wanna make sure that it's not gonna, it's not gonna cause any harm or not gonna blow up not gonna leak.

And so that's what our job primarily is. Um, you know, and, and in, you know, this isn't all pipeline stuff in facility stuff where there's, you know, a hundred operators walking around and, and stuff like that. So that's what our job is. It's, it's a quality, but it's a safety related thing as well.

Yeah. That's what non-destructive testing is. And don't get me wrong, that's oil and gas, non-destructive testing. There's, they do NDT on on automobiles. They do. I've, I've x-rayed iPhone cords before for quality control to see how many of 'em were, were not connected in like, the base of the charger.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, I don't know if you've ever bought like a phone charger, plugged it in and it just didn't work right off off the hook.

Kelly Kennedy : I have. I absolutely have.

Mckinley Hyland: So yeah, so we had to do like a thousand phone cords one time to figure out how many were not working from factory or not connected Right. From the factory.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, it was part of their quality control program. And uh, so we've done stuff like that. We've done, we've done all sorts of cool stuff, man. We've, we've done, I don't know, we've x-rayed cell phones, we've. I don't know. There's a ton of stuff that we've got to do. Yeah. Um, it's a really, it's a cool thing.

You know, it's probably one of the places that you're gonna find the most nerdy people in, in the oil and gas industry. Yeah.

Kelly Kennedy : I could attest to quality people being a little bit on the nerdy side.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. And I mean, it's, you meet all sorts of different characters in this industry. I mean, yeah.

I've met so many different walks of life and a lot of them are, are bred into this industry like I was with my stepdad, basically. Um, otherwise I would've had no idea what, what NDT was. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it's a, it's, it's a really good industry if it's like I said, there's a lot of places where you're gonna, and a lot of times where you gotta sacrifice your time for money and, and your career and, and, uh, that's just like any other oil and gas job. But ultimately I believe that this is a, I don't think that there's another oil and gas job that I would've picked. Yeah. Looking back on it in the last, and, and that's not just because I've been successful with it, but I really do think that, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's a good job.

There's lots of good benefits and perks that come with it. You're not at the same place all the time. You're not doing the same thing all the time. There's different challenges that kind of challenge you mentally where you have to use your brain. So I'm, I mean, yeah, I think if I look back I don't think I would've changed anything about where I, how I went about this and, and what industry I'm in.

Yeah. I think I, I would've, I'd stick with it if I could go, if I got a do-over, I might go about it a little bit differently, but I'd still end up. I'd still end up where I am and I'd still end up, you know, in this industry for sure.

Kelly Kennedy : I love that dude. I love that.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. And then the oil and gas landscape in Alberta or, or you know, the energy industry, I guess.

Yeah. We can call it now.

Kelly Kennedy : Absolutely. Um, sorry, I just wanna pause you really quick here. So yeah, when you started Maverick, NDT back in 2015, we went through one of the worst oil and gas downturns of mine in your lifetime. Yeah. And, and it was devastating, like absolutely devastating. I was in Edmonton at the time.

The only thing that saved our butts was the fact that we had a few contracts and some really great relationships who were like, we get it, but you're still gonna give us a deal, but we're gonna keep you working. And that's really what it was at that time. If you didn't have friends in the oil and gas industry, you were screwed.

There was no way that you were coming out the other side of that. I remember them just coming, coming in. It felt like every single week they were coming and asking for another discount. The, you know, the oil and gas people, the shutdown people, they're like, no. Like, we need more money. We need more money.

More money. And most of these people were already working up for thin margins to begin with. Um, yeah. And I, a lot of businesses just straight up folded. You launched a business in that time and you've been incredibly successful. And I do just need to give you a clap. It is your 10 year anniversary this year, 2025.

Dude, only 35% of Canadian businesses make it 10 years. You have beat the odds. You continue to beat the odds. Congratulations.

Mckinley Hyland: Thanks, man. Yeah. You know what it was, uh, I think at that point I had nothing to lose. In 2015 we would've started and it would've just been a numbered company. And, um.

Probably more for just a tax break than anything at that point. I wouldn't necessarily say that it was like a launched company. You know, I, I started to acquire equipment and stuff like that. I wasn't doing a whole lot of work with Maverick, I, I, or with the numbered company, which we'll call Maverick, because that's what it led into.

But in 20, probably 2017 is when I went contracting. Yeah. So I wasn't full scale, it was just, I had accumulated enough tools and equipment to be able to go perform jobs by myself. I didn't have, I didn't have my own procedures or licenses or safety program yet. You know, I was going to work for companies that.

That had, you know, bid on a job and got it. And, uh, they would subcontract it out to me. And so it was challenging, but I don't think I understood how challenging it really was at the time, you know? Yeah. I remember I was working for a company in Whitecourt and, uh, they were actually the first company that gave me a shot with my own truck and my own you know, as a subcontractor you cost a little bit more money and, and, you know, I took a, I took a dive on rates, what they should, what I should have been getting paid, and what I was getting paid were two completely different things, but I wanted to get my truck on the road.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And so I was, I remember I was working for a company in white court and, uh, I was sleeping in my truck in the Walmart parking lot.

Kelly Kennedy : Wow.

Mckinley Hyland: And like looking back at it. I mean, I still sleep in the passenger seat of my truck if I get tired on the way home.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: But it's definitely not like a, it's not a strategy at this point, but back then it was like, okay, how am I gonna make this work?

What I, you know, these guys, you know, you gotta work for 30 days and then you don't get paid for another 30 days after that. So you basically have to have enough money to operate for 60 days. And, you know, being just a young guy, I didn't have a lot of savings and my parents didn't my dad bought me my first dark room which was like a, I still have it, but it was not, it was not, it wasn't a brand new one, I'll tell you that much.

He actually, he bought it for a thousand bucks. I, I sent him a picture of it and, uh, I said, it's a short box, dark room you can't get, and you can't find him very often. Right. I said, it's a short box, dark room. And he said, well, I'll ask the guy how much he wants. And, and, uh. The guy said, we'll make him an offer.

And, and I didn't even tell my dad. I just said, I'll give you a thousand bucks for it off the top of my head. And he is like, yep, pick it up.

Kelly Kennedy : Mm-hmm.

Mckinley Hyland: Find a way to load it and get it outta here. So I called my dad and I said, yeah. He said, a thousand bucks. And my dad was like, ah, well that's not too bad. I said, yeah, but we gotta get it outta here.

Do you know anyone in Brooks that can get it outta here? And he's like, well slow down. He's like, slow down. And I was like, no. Slowing down. I already told the guy I made the thousand dollars offer. Yeah. And he's like, oh. I'm like, yeah. He's like, I guess I'll send him the money then. And I don't know that I ever paid him back for that.

I think that was the deal was that I had to pay him back for that. But I'm not sure. Not sure if I did. Um, but that was pretty much all I got. Like I wasn't given, I wasn't given anything other than advice. And, uh. They've helped me out here and there. My mom and dad have helped me out here and there, you know, when, when I maybe didn't have enough cash to get through, but certainly not in the beginning.

Mm-hmm. Um, and uh, and yeah, so I remember sleeping in my, I mean, that was my business plan. My business plan was I can save, you know, 6,000 bucks by not getting a hotel room.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: So 6,000 bucks is a ton of money, man.

Kelly Kennedy : That's right.

Mckinley Hyland: And so I slept in the backseat of my truck. I, I, you know, I, in white court in the parking lot, I mean, there was no, and I didn't, it wasn't that bad.

I mean, whatever. I was making lots of money and. I don't know. I guess sleep in a bed wasn't worth six grand to me for two months. So I mean, that's what you did.

Kelly Kennedy : I think, you know, this is a perfect example of what our oil and gas workers do to get by, right? Like, like I, I love this conversation because it's so authentic, dude.

This is so Alberta Oil and gas, you know, especially from my time in it, you know? I mean, I don't know how it is today. I'm not in it the same way that I used to be, but I just, I remember this time, I remember these people. I remember you. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, that was just how it was. And it wasn't just you.

There were thousands and thousands of people doing the same thing.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, man. It's, uh, I mean, I was so young that I didn't notice. I didn't think that I was. That I would look back 10 years down the road and go, do you remember that time I slept in my white, in my truck in White Core for two months? And that's not the only time that's happened.

Like that's not, you know, I remember being in Edmonton too, and I, I slept in the, I was, actually, there's a, I slept in my trailer in the Walmart parking lot. Where was it? I think right off 17th or something. Right in Edmonton. And uh, there was a guy that called 'cause it was a, it's a big toy hauler. I still have it.

Yeah. But, uh, I slept in my, because I didn't wanna pay for a, I had this trailer, I didn't wanna pay for a campground. I didn't know how long I was gonna be there, so I just pulled it into Walmart parking lot and they, uh, there's a guy that called into the radio station that I was listening to that was like, joking and making fun of Albertan Oil Workers.

And there's a guy in the parking lot with this big, you know, a hundred thousand dollars trailer and a hundred thousand dollars truck. He can't afford a, a campground, whatever. And, and, uh, I just remember how, and just laughing myself, but I dunno, it's just what we do, man. I, it's just different. And there's Don't get me, they're not all like that.

Yeah. Like there's not, people aren't all like that. There's guys that work in this industry that. They go sleep in a hotel every night and they want to, and, and there's young guys too that are like, I'm not sleeping in my truck. No way.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Like, you can't pay me enough to sleep in my truck. Whatever. And, and that's okay.

That's you're right. Is to have a hotel room. Like, you know, I, as an employer, I would never tell somebody, Hey, you gotta sleep in your truck.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I, I would never do that. This is a perfect example. Last night I had a guy that drove up to Grand Prairie to shoot 21 welds. And, uh, it was a night shift.

He finished up at like three, four in the morning, as we were talking about earlier before the podcast started. That's why I was up so early. And uh, he, when I was talking to him on the phone at four o'clock this morning, he said, so should I just go get a hotel room or like, what should I do? And I'm like, yeah, go, go get a hotel room.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And, uh, I said, make sure you get late checkout because they're gonna. Otherwise they're gonna try and kick you out at 11 o'clock and, and whatever. And he goes, well, you just gimme full sub and I'll sleep in the truck. Sure. Whatever you, if you're okay with that, then go ahead. Right.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: If he wants to, if he wants 180 bucks and puts it in his pocket and sleeps in the truck, that's fine with me.

I mean, I, I certainly wouldn't let him go to a two month project and do it. Yeah. Like, I think I wouldn't let that fly myself, but, if, what's the difference? He's gonna get three hours of sleep in the, in a hotel, or he is gonna probably sleep six hours in the backseat of the truck and hit whatever he is gonna pack up and head back to Edmonton.

And I think that we're just built different, like it's just a different thing. It's a, there's some guys that'll do it, some guys that don't. I don't expect it. Of anyone.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, but, you know, I, I don't know. It's a, it's a weird, it's a weird industry man.

Kelly Kennedy : Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna take that opportunity to just lead into, you know, how is the Alberta oil and gas industry doing from your perspective? Like, is business up? Is it down, is it coasting? You know, in the past, let's call it two years or three years since we talked last, you know, what's new? Are we, are we doing okay?

Mckinley Hyland: Uh, that's a hard one, man. I think some parts of the industry are, are doing well, some parts aren't. It's hard because this is gonna come out in, in. Eight or 10 months or whatever it is. And, and the world is gonna change so much right now.

Kelly Kennedy : Sure, sure.

Mckinley Hyland: You know, with, with the new Trump administration that just took office. We're looking at an election in, in Canada, hopefully in the next six months.

Kelly Kennedy : Should have been, should have been a month ago.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Shoulda have been, should have been four years ago, if you ask me. But, um, yeah, no politics.

Kelly Kennedy : No politics, no politics.

Mckinley Hyland: So I mean, the, we're just gonna, we're on a rollercoaster ride, man, from when, when we're recording this to even when this comes out, we're gonna be, we're gonna be on a tear.

We might be Americans by the time this comes out. You never know. Um, launch.

So, it's just, it, the industry itself is, I would say holding back.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Right now I would say. The big oil and gas companies, the Suncor, CNRL, Cenovus like those guys are, they're just taking it easy right now.

Yeah. I don't think big corporations hate uncertainty if they can't win or they don't know if they're gonna win. They would rather just ride the wave. And, um, so I think that's, I think that's where we're at right now. I think you're gonna see kind of just steady, you're gonna see the maintenance work continue.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, these guys still gotta spend their money. So lots of times when you're in uncertainty like this, they spend it on maintaining rather than new construction or new projects. Which is unfortunate for us 'cause we're not, we're not super involved in the maintenance side of things as we are in the, the new construction side of things.

But I think that that's where you're gonna see most of their. Most of the, the oil and gas companies money going to is gonna be the maintenance side of things. Upgrading what they currently have, which I guess is new construction. Uh, making their systems, their current systems better. Um, maybe a little bit of it, probably a little bit of expansion, but I, I wouldn't expect to see too much, too many new projects put out on the table by the big three.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: That being said, you know, with, with all the stuff that's going on where, Trump the tariffs that Trump wants to put on or is threatening to put on, I'm hoping that maybe that gives us the ability to get our product to, to tide water. You know, we've had so many canceled pipelines over the last 15 years.

Um, yeah. We really don't sell our oil and gas and energy to any other market other than the us. We're tied to a chair and we, it's all we can do. So if they say We're paying this much, we're paying.

That's what they're paying.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And, um, so I'm really hoping that we can hit other markets here. I'm hoping that the government and industry sees what, what we need to do.

And, and I think what we need to do is get our product to other markets. I mean, at the end of the day, if oil and gas dies, and I want my business to still keep going, I need to find another market

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: To sell to.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: So whether that means I need to go certify windmills, or I need to go, uh, certify cars or lifting equipment, or diversify.

Right now, these oil companies, they've gone from just being oil companies to energy companies. Whereas, you know, Suncor's putting up windmills and solar farms and stuff like that. I don't think that that's enough diversification. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, they make their money. I mean, that's for, that's for carbon credits.

That's all that's for.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Um, they're not making money on that stuff. Um, they're getting tax breaks, but they're not making money on it. So I'm hoping that, that the government in particular sees that we need to get this stuff to new markets. We need to start selling to Asia. We need to, you know, we gotta, we gotta get this stuff out.

Yeah. And, and, uh, at the end of the day, if I'm only selling my services to you and you say, well, I ain't paying, what am I gonna do?

Kelly Kennedy : It's funny because you talk about it on here all the time, that almost all business gets too comfortable. And at the end of the day, your customers can leave at time for any reason.

And unfortunately, we're seeing that right now with the United States being like well, whatcha gonna do Right for good? You hope that you're gonna together in a, in a good way. But diversification. Is always good for that very reason, because you never know. You never know. Your customer can leave at any time for any reason.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, and that's the, that's the biggest thing, right? I mean, you know, if you cut the same block, if you cut the same, you take the same block and you shovel it all winter and all of a sudden there's three new house owners and they decide, we don't need you to shovel our walk. And you didn't go to the next block and see if you could shovel some of theirs.

And they already got a guy this year. Well, now what?

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And it, it's simple. It's not, it's not hard.

Kelly Kennedy : And 2015 in Alberta was a perfect example of that, right? Like when the oil downturn happened, they only had one customer, oil and gas. And like a ton of businesses folded. Acheson and Nisku were like ghost towns.

Like what? Were once bustling oil and gas locations overnight. Just ghost towns like you could drive through and not even see a person and these massive fabrication buildings that they spent, you know, millions and millions of dollars building.

Mckinley Hyland: Yep.

Kelly Kennedy : Empty, you know, it was crazy. Yep. It was crazy. I'd never seen anything like it at that time.

Mckinley Hyland: Well, and now, I mean, you, so you go from 2017 to 2020. We were just getting, we were just scaling. We were just, you know, I had bought a second truck and, and I was just getting ready to get my procedures and then COVID.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Right. And so just like you said, you know, 2015, it's a ghost town and by 20 17, 20 18, you know, some of these guys that, that had closed the doors decided, Hey, I'm gonna give it another kick at the can.

Things are looking good. They get their feet back underneath them just to have the carpet pulled out a year and a half later.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: You know, COVID absolutely destroyed the industry. And then. And so now we, you know, the last couple years Covid's over you know, we've all kind of got our feet back under us again.

We're trying to figure things out. Everybody's repaid their CBO loans or their S loans or whatever. And uh, and then now you have the new administration in the US and everyone's like, well, what the hell? You know, at this point it's like if you, if you're not expecting something like this, and it's good because it doesn't give you the opportunity to get comfortable anymore.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I mean, you used to get eight, 10 years good years out of it before

Kelly Kennedy : easy

Mckinley Hyland: before, pardon my language, but before shit went absolutely sideways.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And now it's like every six months something is like, catastrophic happens and you're like, well, I dunno.

Kelly Kennedy : I'll tell you what if nothing else, it is building some incredibly resilient Canadian entrepreneurs.

Mckinley Hyland: Oh, for sure. For sure. Or breaking them.

Kelly Kennedy : Dammit. We're resilient.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's a weird industry, man. It's, it's, uh, it's fun. I, it's something new all the time, you know? And, and the landscape is always changing. The ride that you're on is always a new ride, sometimes scarier than others.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: I like the up better than the down myself, but.

I mean, most people get the rush from the down. I'm, I'm good with just going up on the roller coaster. We don't even need to do the loopy loops. We just That's great. We can skip that.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. We think we're good with just, we're good with just, a gradual uptick.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, I mean, that's it, man.

And, and I think that it, taking this all back to the business development side of things, I mean, that's what this podcast is about. It's really important that you, that you're ready for this. And, and I think, like you said, having relationships is the absolute key. You know, we, I try really hard to keep our relationships and, and make sure that, and, and not just for business, but because these people have become my friends.

Yeah. Like they really have, um. And, you know, there's times where I've done company's favors. You know, Hey, I know so and so didn't pay. We're good till next month. It's all good. Don't worry about it. And there's also times where I've went to those same clients and said, Hey, I, you know, we just took on this new project and I'm running a little short, and, and they'll cut a check 15 days early, and, and having those relationships.

And it doesn't just pertain monetarily. I mean, it's just having relationships that you can be honest and upfront and open with your clients and friends and, and they'll always know that you're gonna tell 'em when, when stuff's going sideways. Yeah. And that's, it's, they'll have trust in you. And trust is the biggest thing.

I mean, we can all say, oh, we're quality orientated. We're safe, we're this, we're that we're, everybody says that. Everybody's motto now is quality, safety, productivity. Show me a, a company slogan that doesn't have those three things in it. Yeah. In the oil and gas industry, we all have it.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: But at the end of the day, like the relationships and being honest and, and, and building trust with your clients and customers and, and friends and employees and, and it's, that is what is key to building a successful business.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: It's absolutely key. Anybody that says you don't need your clients or you don't need your employees, or, you know, I can replace that guy from a gas station, it's not true.

And if those are the people that you're employing, you're doing it wrong.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Because I guarantee if one of my guys leaves, I'm in a real panic to figure out how to fix it. And 99.9% out of the time it's me that goes out into the field to cover for it and train somebody to be exactly like the guy that just left.

Yeah. And we don't have, we don't have turnover often. Yeah. But it does happen. People, we had a, we had a really great guy. That was, he's from out east and he is got a kid out east and, uh, like we were talking about earlier, he just couldn't take it anymore. Yeah. He's like, man, I gotta get on a flight. And I said to him, I'll come up there, I'll cover everything.

I'll deal with it. Just get home, go see your, go, see your family. Go see your kid. And we'll talk. And we talked three weeks later and he said, I'm not coming back. I can't, uhhuh can't do it. And that's, and who am I to say, well, you left me an lurch. No one. Yeah. He didn't leave me an lurch. This is business.

And that's what I had to do. And you know, we, we got another guy, we trained him up, he's out in the field. He is doing just as good of a job as, as the last guy. And I still talk to the, I still talk to him. He's one of my good friends. I've known him for 10 years. Yeah. He's the last guy that would've left me an lurch on purpose.

Yeah. He just couldn't do it. And so, having those relationships, that's key. Yeah. If you don't have those relationships, you're not gonna make her.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Doesn't work.

Kelly Kennedy : So would you say that in the last like 10 years, 'cause like I said, 35% of Canadian businesses get to 10 years, like the remaining 65 never make it.

They die. They, they, they dissolve. Would you say that your relationships have been your secret to long-term success, or is there more to it than that?

Mckinley Hyland: No, I think it's a mixture. I think it's certainly a mixture, but I think that without the relationships, none of it, none of it would've happened.

Yeah. Relationships would be, would be the, the number one thing, relationships and tenacity. And, and you know, the, the hustle, right? When you have guys that work with you or work for you, you know, they're out in the field and they know that I'm here. They know that I'm at home. They know that I'm sleeping in my bed every night.

And, you know, they're in camp for seven days a week for however long and. If they don't think that you'll come out there to help 'em. If they call, they don't, they're not gonna stick around. Yeah. They don't owe you anything. And why should they, why should they stick around? So they're not gonna do you any favors.

And so I think that that's the key is that, you know, what, we've, we've built relationships with the people that work, that work for us. And they've seen that we'll bend over backwards for them when we need to, and we're always gonna be for there for 'em. And it's not just talk.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Like sometime at some point you're gonna have to back it up. Like I said, we can all say we're quality minded, but at some point you're gonna get audited and they're gonna find out if you're not quality minded.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah. Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: And so, you gotta talk the talk, but you gotta walk the walk too.

And that's. That's the biggest thing is lots of guys don't do that. Yeah. Lots of companies don't do that. Lots and and they don't. They fail.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: They fail. I can, you can see a good company from a bad, you can see in the culture, you can see in the culture whether a company is based on profits or a company is based on a relationships and surviving and, and thriving and what that company is all about.

If it's all about the bottom line, those companies don't work. If you started a company just to make to get rich, don't work.

Kelly Kennedy : Well. I would also argue the people that start a company to get rich, they're not invested enough to make it successful anyway. Like it takes so much blood, sweat, tears, and dedication to make any of these things work that you have to almost be willing to do it for free.

If you're not willing to do that thing for damn near free or free, you're probably not going to succeed long term. It has to be something you're passionate about.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. It has to be, to me, Maverick, NDT is a legacy project. Yeah. That's what it's, it's named out for my son for a reason. It's a pride thing.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: It's an ego thing. It's a pride thing. It's, entrepreneurs are so stubborn and I, I mean, I, from what I find anyway, like, they don't accept a feat. They don't, there's never a great day in entrepreneurship.

Kelly Kennedy : Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a hell.

Mckinley Hyland: The good days or the, the, you know, the, the days that I go to bed with a smile on my face because of, of work are few and far between.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: But when they happen, man, are they good? That's right. The wins are big wins. The losses. Our big, big losses. And you know what? It's just, it's fun. It's, it's, this is a ride.

Kelly Kennedy : It's funny. We might be in an abusive relationship with entrepreneurship.

Mckinley Hyland: Just for certain. There is no doubt about that.

Kelly Kennedy : Dude, it's been an absolute pleasure having you back here, man.

I love our conversations. I miss talking to you. So thank you so much for doing this. You know, before we close up today, though, we did, we did teach people about NDT, but can you please just like let our listeners know about Maverick NDT because you guys are doing it a little bit differently.

Mckinley Hyland: Sure. I'll pump the tires a little bit.

Yeah. So Maverick, NDT was I guess founded in we say 2017 because that's when we started Maverick from the numbered company, Maverick, NDT. It's a new way of doing things. It's not the old boys club, it's, it's, take everything about NDT, you know, throw it out the window. We're doing it different.

We're incorporating AI into reporting. We've been doing that for a long time now. We've been really successful with it. We're now, we're, we're really into the computed radiography. We're eliminating film, getting rid of it completely. Uh, we got one film truck left on the road Wow. And a couple film processing trailers.

But other than that, we're, we're, uh, we're all in on the computed radiography. We're just doing things completely different than anyone else. Our margins are better because of the way that we're doing things. And our clients are saving money because of the way that we're doing things. If we can save a client money, we can make more money on our end reinvested into our business and grow I think it's a win, win, win, win.

And, uh, yeah, man. That's about all I got.

Kelly Kennedy : That's all the bit you need and, um, you know, you're being modest, you're actually saving companies quite a bit. We get, I'll let them reach out to you. But seriously, Maverick, NDT, they're awesome. Um, you're servicing, obviously Alberta, but you'll go anywhere, right?

Mckinley Hyland: Uh, yeah, for the most part. We're doing a little bit in Saskatchewan and we've been called to go, to go into out in the Kitimat area. You know, we, for projects, we'd go out there. I mean, we're not doing anything call out in the BC area. We do a little bit of call out in, in Saskatchewan that's, we're primarily located in, in Edmonton.

We got trucks we got a few trucks in Edmonton, a few trucks in Grand Prairie. And we're breaking into the, for McMurray market as we speak. And then we got, uh, got a truck down south here in Madison hat. And, uh, yeah, man, we're, we're gonna roll. We'll see when this comes out. It'll be 2026, so maybe we'll be in another market by then.

Hopefully.

Kelly Kennedy : Brave New World.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Man, thanks for having me on and, and, uh, Hey, listen, you've done a great job, dude. You, uh, you know, as, as much as he pumped my tires, you started this thing. I bet you when we recorded our podcast, he had about six faithful listeners.

Kelly Kennedy : Probably less probably like a, a man maybe, and his dog.

Mckinley Hyland: Hey, that was me.

Kelly Kennedy : It might've just been you, dude, actually, but, uh, hold on, hold on, hold on. One thing, one thing that I do remember from that time, yes, your episode with me was our very first time that we broke 80 listeners for a show.

Mckinley Hyland: Hey!

Kelly Kennedy : That was a pretty big deal at the time, man.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah. Smiling ear to ear, I like it.

Yeah, man, you've, you've done phenomenal. I mean, we, we talk about business growth all the time and, um, uh, your reach and whatever, and, and, you know, you've done for what you've scaled in the last 300 episodes. It's phenomenal. Keep doing it. Don't give up. I mean, honestly, dude, you're, you're out there, you're grinding.

I know sometimes you probably don't look forward to these things, or, oh God, I gotta go listen to this. Or gotta go do that. And, and, uh, all while having a family and just keep it up, dude. Don't, don't quit.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Don't quit. Winners don't quit.

Kelly Kennedy : There have been plenty of, plenty of days, man. Plenty plenty where I question, what the hell am I doing?

Because let's get real, these, these things, they don't make a lot of money, right? Like they're really passion projects. At the end of the day, I hope one day we make some money from it. So, you know, but it's, it's just hard work. Like the reality is at this point, maybe I've gone on vacation by the time this comes out, but like, no vacation.

We didn't go on vacation for like two full years and it was just, it was hard. It was challenging, it was tough. There were plenty of days. I questioned it, but you know what, dude? We are the biggest business development show in the world, bar none. We have more business development information than anywhere on Earth at this period in time.

Even at this period of the recording, seven full days of business development information. You're not gonna find that anywhere else. And I did it from a basement in Edmonton.

Mckinley Hyland: Yeah, keep going man. Don't, uh, don't stop. And like, like we were talking about earlier, entrepreneurs, they don't quit.

They don't give up. Lots of days suck, but the days that are good are really good.

Kelly Kennedy : They are.

Mckinley Hyland: And, uh, the highs are really high. Every other day is a low, so just get used to it.

Kelly Kennedy : That's right. And learn.

Mckinley Hyland: Rock and roll.

Kelly Kennedy : Learn to accept the baseline of suck.

Mckinley Hyland: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you just gotta, you just gotta giver, man.

But, uh, thanks for having me on, dude. I, I will hop on here anytime with you. Don't be a stranger. Ask me to come on, or, or Hey, let's maybe we have one with the wives. Let them chat it about That's great. Talk about entrepreneurship and see what they think about it.

Kelly Kennedy : Um, I dunno if we'd wanna do that one.

Mckinley Hyland: I dunno. I dunno. I hear about it all the time, so it'd be interesting to hear what she'd say, knowing that I'm not gonna hear it for a year. Yeah. And then, uh, yeah, see how that goes.

Kelly Kennedy : Shelby is incredibly supportive. Of what I do. Yeah. But there have been plenty of challenges along the way and plenty of times where I have felt the unfairness of that for her.

Right. Yep, totally get it. There's, there's plenty of late nights in your world and in mine where, you know, they're doing the brunt of the parenting and the work, unfortunately. Um, yep. So yes, absolutely. Shout out once again, to the wives to the partners. They're incredible. We could not do this without you.

Mckinley Hyland: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Kelly Kennedy : Yeah.

Mckinley Hyland: Well.

Kelly Kennedy : It was an honor. Again, dude, thank you so much for being my very first interview. And for, for the listeners, listen, if you wanna hear maybe a very different interview than the one we just had here, go back to episode eight. Just go for it with Mckinley Hyland for our very first business development podcast interview to contrast with this 306th episode.

Um, man, it's been a journey and you are killing it. You are absolutely crushing it. Congratulations on your success, and I wish you just the utmost of continued success, Mckinley. You're an incredible individual.

Mckinley Hyland: Thanks man. I appreciate it. And, uh. I'll see you Edmonton.

Kelly Kennedy : Alright, buddy. Okay. Until next time.

This has been episode 306 of the Business Development Podcast and we'll catch you on the flip side.

Outro: This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy. Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry, and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development. The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your Business Development Specialists. For more, we invite you to the website @ www.capitalbd.ca. See you next time on the Business Development Podcast.