Where Hustle Meets Heart with Kapil Kalra

Welcome to episode 254 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today I'm joined by the incredible Kapil Kalra, a powerhouse entrepreneur whose journey takes us from a small grocery store in Dartmouth to building one of Canada's most innovative wellness brands, Nature Mary.

Kapil is all hustle, all heart, and his energy is absolutely contagious.

This conversation is packed with real talk, big wins, tough lessons, and the kind of inspiration that every, every entrepreneur needs.

Stick with us.

You don't want to miss this episode.

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Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to episode 254 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today I bring you a total rock star.

From the streets of Dartmouth to the bustling landscape of Montreal, Kapil Kalra's journey is a compelling narrative of entrepreneurial brilliance and relentless innovation.

After forging his path through the consumer electronics industry, Kapil returned to his roots in Halifax, contributing to his father's business while simultaneously cultivating his own venture in computer wholesale.

In 2008, he made a strategic move to Calgary where over the next 14 years he transformed his business into a multi million dollar powerhouse in the realms of computer and consumer, electronic, wholesale and export.

In 2018, Kapil, fueled by an unwavering entrepreneurial spirit, embarked on a new frontier.

Co founding Nature Mary with his wife, they ventured into uncharted territory, introducing terpene based products that would revolutionize the wellness and skin care industry.

This pioneering approach served as a compelling alternative to CBD and cannabis and quickly gained acclaim.

The year 2023 marked a pivotal moment for Capill and Nature Mary as their exponential growth propelled them to the forefront of Canada's natural health, beauty and pharmacy channels.

Kapil's strategic vision not only solidified Nature Mary's position domestically, but also facilitated the expansion into international markets through significant export deals.

His legacy is not just one of financial success, but also of reshaping the narrative around wellness.

A Testament to Kapil's commitment to innovation, impact, and excellence.

Kapil, it's an honor to finally have you on the show.

Kelly, I really appreciate you having me.

Thank you for your patience, and I'm so happy this is gonna work.

My gosh, you know, just for the listeners of this show, believe it or not, this show has been over a year in the making with just, you know, frankly, technical issues.

Trying to sync up Kapil's busy schedule with being able to come on the show, because if you know anything about him, he is on a plane, it feels like every week somewhere.

And then the last couple times in a row, we ran into technical difficulties, so it's just meant to be.

Today is the one.

Dude, I'm so happy.

I'm so happy.

I was really having my fingers crossed this morning saying, you know what?

No issues.

We've finally had the time, and.

And here we are.

So thank you, Kelly.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

My gosh.

Yeah.

I've been following you for a long time.

It feels like a really, really long time.

And I'm always impressed with what is going on.

It feels like every single week, there is a new announcement from Nature Mary, a new major milestone, a new export deal, something amazing closing.

And even, like, in this conversation before we, like, hey, something huge literally just happened today.

I can't talk about it yet, but it's massive.

And I'm just like, what isn't massive, Kappel?

What isn't massive that's happening for Nature Mary right now?

Oh, my God.

You know, the scale of what I.

What I used to say was important and a milestone is kind of blurred a little bit now.

So I just have to believe in trusting the process and keep pushing forward.

And, you know, great things happen with, you know, with the relentless work ethic.

Yes.

And.

Absolutely.

And it's like, there's no replacement for hard work.

Right.

Me and you both know this, and we talked about it briefly before this show, but, like.

Like, there is.

You just have to hustle.

You really do.

And I think I've had so many people, and I don't know about you, it's like, obviously, we talk to a lot of people in the mental health side of things and, like, the coaching side of things, and a lot of the view is like.

And one of the challenges, I guess, that I've always struggled with is I always believed you have to work really hard to achieve success.

And I'm not sure, like, I've been told on one hand that, like, I probably need to unlearn that because I can have success without killing myself.

But being like, being a kid who didn't grow up wealthy, who didn't come from a wealthy family, I came from a very middle class family with parents who worked their asses off to put a roof over her head and food on the table.

I like, I watched them work really hard to achieve anything.

And so, like, I've always felt like you have to have good work ethic to succeed.

What are, what are your thoughts on that?

I know, I know we've both probably talked to enough coaches that say, like, hey, you can succeed either way, but it's like, it's really hard to like, to see it and be like, could I do that without, like, killing myself?

Well, you know, Kelly, it's funny.

So I grew up very similar, you know, in Dartmouth.

We grew up on Gaston Road, wasn't the most favorable community and area.

My parents were new immigrants and, and obviously entrepreneurship was a channel and an opening for them, particularly my dad at the time.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, growing up that way, I definitely learned by watching them through, again, just unrelenting hustle and work ethic.

My dad first opened a small little Indian grocery store in Dartmouth to satisfy the very small community that was there.

And yeah, again, you know, watching him filling up, filling up bags of, of lentils and rice and sort of, you know, stocking shelves and being there as a, you know, four or five year old, watching my parents working super late at night and, you know, really early in the morning.

So I definitely come from that as well.

And, you know, I think that again, where I came from and sort of how I grew up really solidified that aspect of work ethic.

And again, getting to the point where you say, you know, that unrelenting work, work ethic, sometimes, you know, that's what I saw.

So that's what I thought needed to happen.

But, you know, I think as I grew older, it's about strategic growth and strategic, really putting, putting the right amount of time into, you know, into, into your effort.

So, yeah, no, I'm definitely there with you for sure.

Yeah, it is, it is a tough one because there is a huge part of me still, and I don't care how many coaches I talk to, how many people like, mindset, people who are like, Kelly, like, you need to change the way you think about it.

I don't think I would be here today had I not had that work ethic.

Had I not had that, you know what?

I'm going to hustle even When I'm going to be up before everyone else and I'm going to go to bed after everyone goes to bed.

That hustle has gotten me so far.

And so to negate that and say that I could have achieved what I've achieved or that you could achieve what you've achieved without doing that, I don't know if I believe it, man.

I don't know.

I struggle with it.

Well, Kelly, you know, so it's funny that you say that.

So my previous business, my consumer electronic business, I, you know, when we first started, you know, we were really dealing with a lot of the inventory, bringing into warehouses, having teams process these loads and sort of rebuilding pallets and you know, creating spreadsheets around it and then, you know, having to go out there and sell the inventory.

You know, in between that time, I created a brokering division of that as well where I really wanted to do less of the hands on with my team and I really wanted to sort of sit back, you know, kind of close deals as a broker, you know, bring party A and party B together and you know, take a small commission.

In between, you know, I realized that one, it wasn't sustainable because, you know, what I thought was I wanted to do less work, but, you know, I was creating more risk for myself in terms of not doing that work and sort of, you know, not being just the middleman between the deal, but also, you know, having the inventory.

So, you know, it did bite me a little bit where I thought, okay, you know, I can kind of, you know, take my foot off the gas a little bit and you know, try to restructure it.

But again, you know, fast forward now, I mean, it's nothing but hard work that gets the job done.

And yeah, that's what I've relearned again.

So definitely a fine balance between the two.

Yeah.

So maybe there isn't, man, maybe there is no replacement for hard work.

And dude, I just want to like, I just want to start this off by saying, like, watching you do what you do is a total inspiration for everyone who follows you.

For everyone who follows you.

Thank you.

Watching your hustle, your work ethic, your motivation, and not just your motivation, but like your amazingly positive, uplifting attitude and posts, dude, they go so far.

And just from me to you, I appreciate you and I appreciate that you do that for the entrepreneur.

I have no idea what that means to me.

You know, I use a lot of my posts and a lot of my content for my own motivation.

I know what I struggle with and I know what so many other entrepreneurs struggle with.

And sometimes it's just a pat on the back and say, hey, you're doing okay.

You know, mistakes happen.

You know, we don't look at them as losses.

We look at them as lessons.

So much of that happens on a daily basis that, you know, we need a bit of that push.

And for me personally, you know, that.

That is my driving force.

You know, I do it for everybody else, but I do it for me first.

And that's what gets me through each and every one of my days.

Whether it's, you know, an announcement of an award or a new vendor or a new partnership, or if it's just a lesson, you know, if it's something that we've gone through that I know other entrepreneurs are facing, it's, I guess, almost feels like my duty.

It's like, I've got to do this, you know, for others.

And I get so many messages, so many calls, texts, DMs, all the time just, thank you, saying, hey, listen, like, you have no idea how this post helped me get through my day or get me through my week or get me through a situation that I was dealing with, you know, that I thought wasn't the end of the.

You know, it was the end of the world.

And, you know, I've even since, you know, branched out and started this new initiative called the CPG Circle, where I'm really supporting, you know, emerging brands and emerging entrepreneurs.

And, yeah, man, I just feel like it's my duty and, you know, I. I take something positive for it, for myself, and I'm just blessed that others can.

Can get some vibe off of it.

Yeah.

Entrepreneurship, as me and, you know, can be.

Can be very lonely, and the wins can be few and far between.

There can be long gaps.

Right.

So you really need that.

You need that, like, uplifting stuff to keep you in it, to keep your head in the game, because it's so much of a mental game.

Entrepreneurship is really a mess.

Mental challenge.

Not necessarily like, just a life challenge, but there's so many.

You're fighting yourself more than you're fighting anyone else 90% of the time.

Well, it's funny because, you know, Sonia, you know, my wife, my partner for the last almost 30 years, and my business partner, I mean, she is the total opposite of me.

Everything that can go wrong in her mind will go wrong.

And, you know, she sometimes tells me I'm being too much.

It's like, you know, you can't be that positive.

And.

And if I didn't have that I don't know what I would do.

So we bring a fine balance to each other.

I'm sure she'd have some additional comments on that.

But, you know, again, it's.

It's what helps me and what.

What drives me, and I know it's what drives numerous entrepreneurs as well.

So I know she's a scientist first, not an entrepreneur first.

So she has a completely different mindset in terms of, you know, testing and, you know, things going wrong and preparing for that.

Whereas I'm like, okay, you know what?

It doesn't work today, it's going to work tomorrow, and we just move on to the next task.

And that's, again, what gets me through.

I absolutely love it, and I love that you're a husband and wife team just killing it out there, and I definitely want to spend some time with that today because I'm not sure everyone can do that for sure.

Oh, it's.

It's tricky.

For sure.

Can be.

Yeah.

The.

The level of.

Of backlash you get from your spouse is a very different level.

That's the one you're going to eat.

Eat the most from, for sure.

It's so true.

You know, there might be other people in the office that maybe a little bit more timid in terms of making comments on the way things going, but there's no holding back when it comes to that type of relationship.

No, there is not.

And, you know, it's funny.

Me, you know, me and my fiance, we're not business partners, but she will not hold back from telling me when I am doing something very.

That's so true.

And the crap thing is, she's right too much.

And you know what?

I want to get it right now, but maybe I will do.

Yeah, no, she's.

She'll definitely say the same.

Me and you are very much the same.

I live.

I live up here in the clouds, and every once in a while, I need someone to kick the stool, bring.

It down a little bit.

It's like, hold on a second.

But, yeah, no, it's what gets me through, and it's what helps me.

And again, like I said, I'm just blessed that it helps so many others.

So it's totally, totally.

Dude, take me back to being a kid.

You know, you've gotten to watch entrepreneurship since you were a little kid.

You grew up in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada.

Atlantic Canada.

Beautiful.

I love Atlantic Canada, by the way.

I've only ever been to Halifax, but blew my mind.

Blew my mind.

I was like, this is part of Canada.

This is amazing.

It's truly a very special place.

So, yeah, I mean, growing up, I was born in Halifax.

I was about two years old.

We moved across the bridge to Dartmouth.

At that time, Dartmouth was not the most favorable place.

It had the moniker of the dark side, a little bit cheaper real estate, you know, and, and all that stuff that comes along with that, you know, growing up, I grew up in a very loving household.

You know, we didn't have much at all, but I never felt that, you know, my mom and dad always made me feel that we had everything.

You know, I watched my dad work really hard.

He was a taxi driver when he first moved to Nova Scotia.

When he first came to Canada, he moved to Quebec City in 74, moved to Nova Scotia in 79, and right away just started, you know, started building a business.

And that was always sort of his passion, you know, working for himself.

And, you know, you get what you put in.

So that was, you know, sort of ingrained into me from a very, very young age.

My mom was a barber, so she started cutting hair.

She took a course with her friend, I think it was like a weekend course to cut hair, like a week long or two week, two week long course.

So she became a barber.

So she met another immigrant who was an Italian immigrant named Camilo.

And so she started working very closely with him.

And you know, she was just able to learn a lot of.

About society and, you know, how things worked in, you know, 1980s Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, it was a very, very different, different place.

So yeah, you know, for me growing up, going to school, you know, there was, like I said, very limited Indian community.

I grew up with black people.

I mean, that was who, you know, who my friend circle was at that time.

And still to this day.

So, you know, the Indian side of me really wasn't there.

I mean, you know, I had it, I had, you know, at home in terms of the language and the religion and everything else.

But, you know, much of what I learned really was what was happening in all my other friends household.

So I was very fortunate to have a strong base, not only culturally for myself at home, but also understanding, you know, how to sort of, you know, move in society, you know, at that, at that young age.

So, you know, looking back now, very, very fortunate.

You know, one of my best friend's dad was a psychologist.

Another one of my friend's dad was a salesman for Dixie cups, lily cups of plastic or paper cups.

Another one of my friends going up through junior high and high school owned a magazine called Progress Magazine, which is an Entrepreneur based magazine in Atlantic Canada.

So I was immersed in a lot of different business sales from a very young age.

And so that's definitely what, you know, what opened my eyes to entrepreneurship.

I saw a lot of my dad, as well as my friends, dads, you know, being entrepreneurs, they're their own bosses sort of called the shots as they wanted to, you know, set their own schedules.

So I thought that was very glamorous and very, very attractive to me.

And then growing up, going through high school, I struggled through high school.

It was just, you know, I learned, you know, I made posts about this on LinkedIn.

I learned a very different way.

I don't learn by sitting and reading a textbook.

I literally learn through.

Through application and learning, you know, through experience.

So, yeah, you know, I had a hard time in high school.

It was very tough.

You know, what I wanted to do was, you know, sort of hustle on my own and kind of figure out my own path.

You know, I'm selling, burning CDs and selling them at school and, you know, doing all that stuff where, you know, you don't really realize that it's an entrepreneurial path in this journey.

But, you know, looking back now, it's.

It blows me away that that's what I was doing.

So, yeah, you know, growing up in, in Nova Scotia was, you know, at times, art, particularly with, you know, the limited stuff that we had.

But again, like I said, I was.

Came from a very loving home.

My parents made me feel very, very special.

My mom hugged and kissed me all the time and told me how great I was and how I can do anything that I wanted to, you know, that I could put my mind to.

And, you know, I take that from a very young age to now.

So very, very blessed.

You know what?

I. I actually agree with that.

You know, my mom was the same way.

Right.

You can do anything you want.

You can be anything you want.

Like, I'm not sure how great of.

Information that it's like, well, what does that mean?

Right.

I never did become an astronaut.

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

So true.

But you know what?

I.

You know what?

I think that that is really uplifting and motivating.

And I think on the other side of it, I think now we have more entrepreneurs probably than ever.

And I definitely think a lot of them are millennials.

Totally.

And I think it really is because our parents were like, you can be anything you want to be.

It'.

True.

You know, it's so funny that you say that, Kelly, because, you know, growing up, I think in a typical like immigrant household, particularly Indian household.

It's the become the professional, become that doctor, that lawyer, you know, get an education and, and, you know, you know, make something of your, of your life.

And at that time, you know, my dad being an entrepreneur, entrepreneurship wasn't looked upon as a great thing.

It was looked upon.

It was very looked down upon, particularly in the community that we grew up in, you know, being surrounded by these doctors, lawyers and, you know, all these, you know, professional people.

It's so changed now where, you know, the entrepreneurs is glorified and is celebrated now, whereas before it wasn't, you know, it wasn't something to smile about, particularly for many people.

So again, you know, I think growing up through that, you know, what my mom sees now compared to what she saw with my dad at that time was totally different.

She's so proud now that, you know, I'm an entrepreneur and everything else, but that was looked down upon for them, you know, kind of coming up.

So it's such a stark difference now compared to, you know, what I saw and what I thought was, you know, this glamorous thing, which at that time clearly wasn't and now is a celebrated glamorous thing where, you know, you're, you're building something special, you know, where would you be able to, you know, you know, you've got, you know, you're on exception with a doctor or surgeon that, you know, as a brand or has created some sort of, you know, technology, you know, but at the end of the day, for the most part, it's the entrepreneur that's the one that's going to be the big winner at the end of the day.

Yeah.

And that's what kind of gives me my driving force now.

But not knocking any profession, but this is what I chose and this is what I absolutely love to do.

Yeah, no, I agree.

It's one of those things that like every, almost every entrepreneur I talk to is like, I'm no longer employable.

So true.

It's like this, like, weird, weird transition that happens where it's like, I don't, I don't know if I can go back to doing that.

Yeah, it's so true.

It's so true.

I often joke because my very first job in grade 10 was at a call center and I didn't last a week.

My first PayCheck was like $72 or something, and my dad laughed at me.

So my dad's like, I don't know what you're going to do.

So he gave me a job in one of his many businesses at the time.

And he was like, he was so unsure of what was going to happen with my life.

He bought me a Canada Post outlet that I ran for a year and a half, two years.

I had to get up early in the morning, go run this.

And I had a manager and it just wasn't what I love to do.

But he was so concerned, you know, he told my mom, he's like, regardless of what happens with, with Kapil's Life, he's guaranteed $100,000 of income out of this business a year, and he's going to be good.

And, and it was just, again, it wasn't my passion, you know, I just couldn't do it.

But, yeah, it was a constant fear of his.

So I, I, you know, I lost him about 12 years ago now.

And I really wish that he was here to kind of see what we've, what we've done.

I'm damn sure he'd be proud, you know, of what we've created now.

But I'm sure he's watching and smiling.

I'm damn sure he is proud and he is watching.

That's my opinion.

Yeah.

You're like, what?

This is my son.

Like, sure, that's exactly what he's saying.

So, you know, and I think that that's all we can hope for as sons.

Right?

Is like, it's like, of course we want to make our parents proud.

That's the whole game, Right?

You know, my mom is still the most proud person on planet Earth.

So true.

You know, dude, you've been an entrepreneur a long time.

A really long time.

The better part of two decades.

So it's like, at this point, that is your life, like, you haven't been employed in a really, really long time.

And, you know, it might be hard to take us back, but want you to take me back to that time, you know, when you launch your consumer electronics business.

You know, what was that like for you?

What was the kick?

What was the thing that kind of kicked you into that?

Yeah.

So this is a really interesting story.

So at that time, just coming out of high school again, really uncertain of what, you know, what my life looked like.

I moved to Montreal after high school for just over a year with a buddy of mine.

We had these great ambitions of starting a record label and starting a clothing line and doing all this stuff and.

But there was no real plan, no real structure, no real even understanding of what that looked like.

It was just an idea, a concept, a thought, you know, big into hip hop.

So I Just wanted to be a record promoter and whatever else.

So, you know, I thought that was the glamorous lifestyle that, you know, that that would lead me to.

That lifestyle.

I gave.

I came back to Nova Scotia and my cousin who was in Ontario, I know, big, big influence, massive influence in my life at that time.

He was buying computer parts in China.

He was shipping them to, to Ontario and was building out these custom PCs and, you know, bringing screens and he was selling them to local computer shops, wholesaling them, you know, rehol selling B2B, you know, had a couple government contracts with some schools and he was able to supply some stuff.

So we went to visit him, I visited him prior to that in like the late 90s, but you know, again, you know, sort of lost touch and you know, he was doing his thing and I was just a little kid, you know, a young teenager.

So there wasn't really much of a connection there.

But after I came back, I went to visit him and sort of saw his operation and really opened my eyes to, you know, technology was always of interest to me.

I came up, you know, in the computer age where, you know, I had one.

Actually, funny enough, going back, he was one of the first ones who gave me a computer that was like, it was a penny 133 with like 16 megabytes of RAM.

It was like, it was like the cutting edge.

It was the top of the top in my, you know, in my friend circle.

You know, it blew me away.

I was like, wow, what's he doing?

So, so fast forward a few years later, you know, I went to visit him in Ontario.

I sort of saw his operation, which is this giant warehouse.

He had all these computer techs that were building computers and, you know, putting them in nice boxes and getting them ready.

And that opened my eyes to, to what I, you know, what might be an option, an opportunity for me.

I remember he gave me a list.

He sat me down at one of the empty offices and he gave me a list.

And he's like, here, here's a list of 20 or 30 customers.

So it was a cold list of his, a list that was, it was, it was a dead list.

So it was a list that he couldn't get any business out of.

So he's like, if you can pull a sale out of this list, he's like, we'll talk.

So I remember it was eight in the morning and I'm getting on the phone, I'm calling, I don't have a pitch.

It's super unpolished.

I'm just, you know, talking randomly.

I've got a couple computers to sell.

People hanging up on me.

No, not interested, not interested.

And so we went for lunch.

We took a break for lunch.

We went for lunch.

And he's like, hey, how's it going?

I said, no, it's not going well at all.

I said, people are hanging up on me.

They're so rude.

And I was super green to the, to the industry.

So I had no idea, you know, what to sort of expect.

He's like, you know what?

He's like, keep it up.

He's like, keep just banging those phone calls.

And he's got a couple more hours after lunch.

So we get back after lunch and I make 10 or 15 more calls.

And then finally one guy's like, hey, I'll take five monitors and two PCs.

And my heart was just jumping out of my chest.

I'm like, oh, my God.

I said, okay.

I wrote it up.

And then I hung up.

I said, I'll call you back.

And I went to Anil's office and I'm like, hey, I got a deal.

I got a deal done.

And he was smiling.

And at that time he told me, he's like, like, this is a dead list.

He's like, I didn't expect you to make one sale out of this list and you did it.

And I was like, blown away at that day.

He gave me an email address with my name at the extension of his company name.

And I was just on cloud nine.

I couldn't believe it.

So I went back to Nova Scotia and he sent me up.

He's like, hey, I'm gonna send you some inventory, start making some phone calls in Nova Scotia, find some local spots.

And that was the beginning of this massive journey.

And then fast forward years, I mean, I was buying container loads of inventory, had my own warehouse.

You know, I did that for the better part of 13 or 14 years.

And, you know, there were some highs and lows, kind of figuring out the industry, but I found a few great suppliers here in Alberta.

I was in Nova Scotia at the time, but funny enough, I had some of my solid suppliers out of Alberta.

So I was buying inventory from them, exporting it to the US and exporting it to, you know, all over the place.

And then from there I was able to grow that business, you know, into government contracts, into a buyback program.

We dealt with Costco US for years, buying their return inventory.

Walmart US, Sam's Club.

So it blossomed over the next 10 years into a multi, multi million dollar business and just a volume.

Yeah, it was, it was a pretty crazy way to start and pretty crazy way to end it for sure.

That's an amazing story, dude.

That really is a rags to riches story right there.

It truly is.

It truly is.

And I didn't know what would come of it.

I thought, oh my God, like, you know, I'm not going to make one sale with this.

And it all started with that one sale and just, you know, persevering through it.

Push it through.

I love that.

I love that.

Persevering through it.

I'm a huge advocate for.

You don't see success coming.

You don't, Right.

There's no, like, people like to make the five year plan and the ten year plan.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a five year and ten year planner.

I also recognize that it's probably going to go completely different, but I'm a dreamer.

Yeah.

So to me, it makes me feel good in the moment where it's like, I know what's going to happen.

The reality is it never goes to plan and opportunities always come out of left field.

The best things that have ever happened to me, even this podcast, I never saw it coming.

It was like, hey, I think there's an opportunity here.

I'm going to try it.

But a month before that it wasn't even on the table.

Right.

Well, it's so funny.

So we're, we're currently going through some, some like deep due diligence with some, some investor groups right now, pretty far down the process.

And you know, oftentimes we hear especially from the banks or, you know, anywhere you're trying to, you know, find some money, it's like, well, what's the next three or five years look like?

And it's like I can't tell you what the next 12 months looks like.

So I can kind of guess and, you know, kind of give you an estimation on what I feel would be the best path.

But my God, Kelly, what I've experienced like month over month, like curveballs come, plans change, you know, the overall plans, obviously you know that, that one.

But it's the intricate parts of the plan are always changing.

So.

Yeah, no, I definitely get that for sure.

Totally.

When I started capital business development, the idea was that I'm just going to do fractional BD around the country for everyone who needs it.

Right.

And it's like that.

I bet I do less fractional BD than anything else I do.

And I never saw that coming.

It wasn't even Coming.

Yeah, exactly.

And the fractional bd I do now, I do it at, like, you know, 20 hours here or whatever.

Right.

Like, for a completely different rate, a completely different thing than I ever thought I would.

And now my passion has really evolved into coaching.

I absolutely love coaching.

I didn't.

I'm not even sure that I knew what coaching was when I launched Capital.

Well, it's funny.

These.

These things evolve, right?

It's like things change.

You pivot and evolve, and the fun stuff comes out of it sometimes.

Exactly.

You know, I guess what I'm trying to convey to our listeners today is don't feel bad when things don't go to plan, because here's the thing.

I bet you the plan that's coming for you is even better than you could have ever planned for.

That's the funny thing about it.

Kelly, let me tell you.

You know, even if you had, if we did this podcast the first couple of times when it was scheduled to now, my God, like, so much has changed and so much wasn't in the plan.

And again, you know, truly honored and humbled that, you know, things have gone the way they have.

But you're so right, things do not go to plan for the most part.

I think if you try to stick to that plan, I think following a plan is crucial.

And, you know, it's.

It's definitely part of the route and the road to success.

But again, you've got to have a high level of, you know, adaptability.

You have to be able to pivot, move quickly.

You know, things often change.

Like I said, I mean, the deal that came through this morning, it was eight, nine months in the works.

And, you know, when we got the first no's and it's not going to work or not the time or not ready, you know, you don't really think.

You just think that's the end of the world.

And, you know, oh, my God, should I.

But, you know, I pivoted.

You know, you quickly adapt, you move forward, and, you know, if you put the right energy out, the right energy comes back.

So it's about just kind of figuring out as you go.

I think, for the most part.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

I think what's more important is that you're putting effort in to move the needle every day.

What that effort is, is up to you.

Right, Exactly.

But I think as long as you are making those connections, like, I know you hustle, I know you pick up the phone and make those calls and try to make those introductions and book those meetings, because that's what's going to lead to future growth for you, right?

Yeah.

If you don't do that, you can't expect three years down the line for just miracles to come out of nowhere.

Right?

The miracles are going to just show up.

No, they come from a daily effort, a daily grind.

You don't see them coming.

Right.

You can't see the opportunity.

But what I can tell you is that if you put in the effort daily, the opportunity will present it.

Absolutely.

It's funny, a friend of mine just transitioned from corporate banking to become a mortgage broker.

So he's just building his business now, you know, trying to get deals.

Really?

You know, I told him, I said before the deals, it's all about networking.

You've got to put yourself out there.

You've got to get to every single meeting, to every person that could potentially throw some business your way.

And I gave him just the analogy that I ride with all the time, which is the farmer.

It's, you know, when you're planting your seeds, you've got to just relentlessly water those seeds.

You've got to monitor them.

You've got to watch for bugs.

You've got to watch all these things, right?

And then when your seed pops, it's like, okay, now you've got to really nurture it and take care of it.

So, you know, it's kind of a, you know, an old adage, but, I mean, at the end of the day, for me, it's, you know, it makes total sense.

And it's something that you've got to really put that.

And you don't see those wins, you know, a lot of the effort that you put through, you're not going to see immediate results.

You're not going to see that, you know, kind of, you know, blossoming at that time.

You've really got to be just really on it and just day after day and.

Yeah.

So, you know, you'll surprise yourself.

At the end of the day, you'll surprise yourself that one day you're like, oh, wow, here are the fruits of my labor.

And, and, you know, it's.

It's, it's worked out.

What I always tell people about business development is that it's not an immediate gratification thing.

It's a long game.

It really is.

And like you said, it's about planting as many seeds today, so that six months, eight months, nine months down the line, that's when that fruit is going to come back.

But you have to be known.

The biggest problem is with any company is you're unknown, Right.

And so unless you're out there knocking doors, introducing yourself, the odds of you getting them in that exact moment with that exact problem is slim to none.

It's amazing when it happens.

Don't get me wrong, I'm always excited when a clock clients like, oh, yeah, we'll take that and we'll take two.

Right, Exactly.

Oh, wow.

But that is not what typically happens.

What typically happens is now they know who Kapil is, now they know what Nature Mary is.

They know, you know, what Capill can provide, how much product he can provide, where he can provide it.

And the next time they're doing that giant order, they make sure that Capilla Nature Mary is on the list.

Right?

But that might be six months from now, that might be eight months, that might be a year.

Walmart might be waiting to make their next big purchases, Right.

And it's not going to happen on your timeline, but it's not going to happen at all if you don't even try to make that connection.

And, you know, it's a.

That's such a great point, Kelly.

So I follow.

Everyone knows Jake Carl's from Midday Squares, and he is a selfless promoter, constantly just promoting.

And, you know, he's built a personal brand.

But, you know, behind that personal brand is an amazing brand, you know, of what their.

What the true mission is, of his efforts in his work.

And, you know, I'm, you know, I'm not that type of guy where I just go out there and I'm just crazy with it.

But, you know, it works.

And it's, again, it's the promotion that you need to do, you know, so I feel that, you know, I definitely have an aspect of that, for sure.

Yeah.

But I feel that that's such an important part.

You know, I saw a meme this morning.

It was like.

It was like a Seinfeld clip.

And they were talking about how business owners in 2024 have to be promoters.

You've got to get on TikTok, you've got to get on Instagram.

And it's like, well, when did this happen?

Right?

But, you know, it's the.

It's the day and age that we live in and it's the world that we live in.

And, you know, you've got to be just relentlessly pushing forward to promote yourself, promote your brand, promote your story.

You know, even with us, you know, a part of what we do is based on Sonia's story.

And, you know, I'm constantly advocating for Sonia for women's health talking about that story, and that's really usually what leads to opening some doors.

So, yeah, you've got to promote that.

Is it push, push.

Yeah.

And you're right, like, there's been a huge shift into personal branding in 2024.

You know, 2023, I like to say, was like the year of AI because that's like, I feel like my first year of this show, everyone wanted to talk about AI.

That was the thing, right?

New year hit, all people wanted to talk about was personal branding.

Everyone I talked to is like, you need a personal brand, you got to build your personal brand.

And I'm like, what is a personal brand?

But I've talked to enough people now that I working.

I'm working on mine, you're working on yours.

You got people out there like Jay Carl just killing it with their personal branding.

Right.

There's so many great people doing it.

But you're right, it's.

It is critical.

I'm not sure when the switch happened.

I'm not even sure that it happened in 2023.

I feel like it might have happened a long time ago.

We're just playing catch up.

Well, it's funny because, you know, I follow so many brands online and a lot of times you will see a founder talking about, whether it's just them just talking about the product or whatever.

But, you know, they are doing that.

I mean, they're definitely, you know, self promoting and, and I think there's a level of trust that that's built behind a brand or even just behind a mission or, you know, whatever their, whatever their path looks like.

But, yeah, it all starts with that personal story.

You know, even now when I'm consulting for companies, a big part of even me onboarding anybody is that, well, what's the story behind this brand?

Why should the consumer care?

Especially if it's a competitive product that's sitting on the shelf next to someone that might be, you know, a dollar or $2 cheaper?

What's the reason why that consumer wants to buy that product?

Why are they following you into that store?

You know, building that personal brand and building that.

That story is so, so important.

Yes, yes.

And, you know, you've done an excellent job with this.

And, you know, I just want to just say, dude, like, you're super brave.

People say that I'm out there because I have a podcast, right?

But I am not out there in the same way.

I'm not hopping on a camera, taking pictures of myself, looking like I've.

I haven't slept for Three, that isn't my life, at least not yet.

But I have struggled.

I've struggled with my own anxieties and fears about posting too much about my own personal life.

And I see people like you out there, you know, like Jake out there, you know, like Mitch out there, who are out there putting.

Putting themselves out there in ways that, like, is very inspiring.

But, like, I just want to say, like, where does that come from?

How did you get comfortable with bearing it all to the world?

So, yeah, great question.

So I've kind of always been that guy.

You know, I always use Sonia as the reference as well, because she's the total opposite.

And she's like, well, you're the mouthpiece for everything always.

So she's like, you go out there and, you know, do all the promotion.

You know, for me, honestly, you know, I'm a. I'm just a. I'm an out there kind of guy.

I just love, you know, socializing.

I love talking.

You know, I love just being part of different circles.

I network a lot.

Again, you know, in my previous business, I neglected to do a lot of that.

And I think that hurt me in terms of the time that I lost, you know, and I don't look at it as a loss.

I look at it as now looking back and saying, hey, look, this is.

These are some things I could have done differently, but for me, yeah, I just.

I like to have the energy out there.

I feed off of other people's energy.

You know, a big thing for me, Kelly, is that when I leave the room, I want to make somebody else feel better.

I want them to feel.

I want them to feel like I feel at the end of the conversation.

And I feel that, you know, 99 of the time, if I don't annoy you, it's.

I probably uplifted you a little bit, right?

You know, a lot of times Sonya tells you, she's like, oh, you're just.

You're just so positive and where do you get it from?

And it's.

It's a driving force for me.

It's like, I give that to myself.

I do that for myself.

You know, I don't find.

It's hard for me to find in other places.

You know, I find them within.

You know, I'm a big positive believer of, you know, manifesting my own thoughts.

I think that, you know, if I can think it, I can dream it, I can do it.

And that's a big, big driving force for me, honestly.

So I don't know where it comes from.

It's just, you know, it's.

I do it for myself first, and I'm just happy that others can kind of soak.

Soak that in a little bit and take something from that.

So, yeah, it's definitely something that, you know, that I do for myself first.

But I'm happy that I'm able to help others.

It's.

It's incredible.

And your energy is infectious.

Just don't say that.

I love that.

Don't change that about you.

But, you know, at this point, I've had the pleasure of interviewing probably about 140 people by the time this show comes out.

And every once in a while, I get somebody that.

And, you know, I try to jive with everybody, but it's just not always possible.

Not every interview is built equally.

Not every human connection is built equally.

But I can tell you that I was thoroughly looking forward to this interview every time.

And I feel like we've, at this point, booked this interview four or five times, and I was just like, I can't wait to talk with Cavill because I love your energy.

I loved our very first connection, our very first talk.

And I knew it was going to be a great show.

I've been waiting as well.

Yeah.

And.

But, you know, you don't get that with everybody.

And it's funny, too, because me, like I said, I. I'm getting better.

I'm working on it.

I'm putting myself out there, but I'm fighting my own personal challenges with doing that.

That has not been who I am.

I'm typically very introverted as a person.

I'm like the most introverted BD guy you've probably ever met, which is a very weird mix.

I'm really good at it, but at the same time, I still get very uncomfortable in a lot of situations I have to overcome.

Right.

But, yeah, it's.

It's awesome because I do try to connect as best as I can with people, and, you know, sometimes it doesn't fly.

The reality is there's shows that just are not very good and it sucks, and it is what it is, and they go out and we go on to the next one.

Right.

But every once in a while, I do get a really great interview.

And I just want to say, like, thank you, because this is definitely one of them.

My pleasure, Kelly.

My pleasure.

I've been looking forward to this.

I've been watching so many of your interviews, and I just love.

I love your energy.

I love just.

You know, it's funny.

We have a.

We have a thing called the vibe check at the office where it's, you know, regardless of your credentials, your experience doesn't matter what it is, there has to be a feeling.

If that feeling doesn't.

If that feeling is not there, it's not going to work.

And I felt that the first time I met you.

I'm like, you know what?

Like, your energy's good, it feels right.

And I was really looking forward to this and.

Oh, thank you.

Yes.

No, thank you, thank you.

I know.

I want you to lead me into it.

So you launched Nature Mary in 2020.

Like, oh, my gosh.

Talk to me, tell me the story of Nature Mary.

Yeah, so Nature Mary was born out of a need for Sonya.

So Sonia suffers from.

She suffers with post mental dysphoric disorders called pmdd.

And essentially it affects a very small population.

It's less than 5% of women.

It's like PMS on steroids.

So every month it's cyclical.

It's just debilitating pain.

That's a chronic condition.

So it's pain, anxiety, depression, just mass inflammation in the body.

So 2019, 2018, 2019.

Ish.

Sonia was going through one of her.

One of her monthly cycles and I had some CBD in my.

In one.

In a container.

So I gave it to her and I'm like, hey, you need to try this.

So she tried it and then within moments she, you know, she got her vision back, she was able to speak a lot of, you know, a lot of the symptoms had started to calm.

So Sonia's a biologist and a neuroscientist, so her first thing was, well, what did this do with my brain?

What just happened?

Yeah, what just happened?

Let me, let me research this.

So, yeah, it opens up this large wormhole of discovering plant cannabinoids, cannabis, you know, all of the things that are just amazing with this plant.

So she discovers that CBD works for her.

She starts just kind of tinkering with cbd, making herself tinctures, making herself some pain products.

At that time she had an aesthetics business.

So she had made, she had added some CBD inside, some facial products and stuff like that.

So she's using that on people.

After she would do their eyebrows, there was some puffiness and some inflammation.

She would calm that down.

And some people were like, well, wow, this is an amazing process.

So Sonia was just giving it away.

She's like, yeah, just take it, take it.

And so I told Sonia, hey, hold on a second here.

You discovered something here that there's clearly a need for this.

So I Told her.

I said, well, listen, CBD is fantastic, but, you know, legalization was just happening 2018, 2019.

So I'm like, you know, we're operating in a regulated industry here that's, you know, not really where our target consumers is shopping.

So I told him, well, listen, CBD is fantastic, but we have to find an alternative to cbd.

Let's find something that.

That works like cbd, but is not heavily, you know, regulated.

It's not, you know, completely controlled by, you know, where it can be sold and how it's accessed.

And again, another wormhole was open.

And so she discovers, you know, through her research, it took about a year, year and a half, but she discovered plant terpenes.

And essentially, plant terpenes are the aromatics in spices and herbs.

So when you cut into an orange, when you smell, that's terpenes.

When you smell it, you smell a.

Rose, when you smell black pepper, those are terpenes.

So terpenes have bio.

Bioactive.

You know, they're bioactive molecules that actually have benefit to our body.

So she discovered one particular terpene that comes from cloves, black pepper, hops, and it acts like cbd.

It actually activates the same receptors on and inside our body as cbd, but not from cannabis.

So this is sort of our aha moment.

We're like, okay, wow.

We've discovered a plant compound that's acting like CBD that sort of is helping with our mission and her mission really at the time, but not heavily controlled.

And so Sonia again, creates a proprietary formula with that terpene with some other, you know, essential oils and other terpenes.

And we've created this.

This blend called bioterpene.

So again, it was this big aha moment for us.

We're like, oh, wow, okay, well, this is, you know, it was a lot of testing going on.

No, no real trials at the time.

Right now we're kind of, you know, undertaking some pre clinical clinical trials.

But at that time, it was really just anecdotal.

There was a lot.

A lot of other studies that were out there around some of these plant compounds, these ingredients.

But so it was just a lot about testing.

So we don't use them as our medicinal focused ingredients yet.

But, you know, we know what.

Where the magic's happening, right?

So we started with a body care line.

The body care line was really strong in the beginning.

And then Covid hit, and we're like, well, wow, okay, well, what do we do now?

So it was pivot time.

Again, we're like, well, how do we, how do we fix this problem?

We had a lot of wholesale accounts that were like small mom and pop operations.

You know, hair clinics, skin clinics, Kelly, 99% of them went out of business during COVID They just shut down.

There was no business.

And I told Sonya, well, what are we going to do?

I said, we've got a small direct to consumer base that's buying our products, but not enough to sustain the business and not enough especially to grow the business.

So again, I analyzed the market.

I'm like, well, what's open right now during COVID And at that time it was grocery and it was Walmart.

So I said, well, we're not going to get into Walmart with these products yet, but let's go target some grocery.

So we walked into Asomis.

There was a Sobeys across the street from our house in Royal Oak in the northwest.

Excuse me.

And as we walk in, Sonia is just, you know, where's the manager?

Who can I speak to?

You know, there's a little, small, little wellness section there.

There's a small little pharmacy there.

And so we met the manager and the manager's like, here, here's a name and a phone number.

Give this guy a call.

And that guy was Gary Hughes.

He's the local manager for Sobeys and he's instrumental in bringing on local companies into their local program.

And I have a very, very.

Sobeys already has a close part of my heart.

It's a Nova Scotia based company.

Growing up, that's when my parents had shopped, you know, for our groceries and everything else.

So Sobeys has always been very close to my heart.

And so, you know, Gary's.

Gary meets us and he's like, well, you know, your, your products are a little bit more premium, a little bit, you know, out priced, but I'll give you guys a shot.

So he gives us a vendor number.

He's like, here, go.

Start talking to the stores.

We got out there, started talking to the stores, started getting listings, started getting orders, and it's what saved our business.

Sobeys literally saved our business at that time during COVID And so coming out of COVID it was like, okay, now really identifying some of these markets and some of these, you know, categories that we want to fit in.

And that's what sort of spiraled our company to start growing in the retail channel.

So fast forward a few years now.

We just signed the national Sobeys deal.

So we're going coast to coast in all the pharmacies with our pain relief products.

Wow.

Yeah.

So just, you know, it was a crazy, crazy story of being able to survive through Covid and then not only survive, be able to grow the business through Covid and then obviously coming back out, out of COVID It's been just, you know, a snowball effect for us.

So, yeah, that's how we started coming.

Coming through a very tricky time where a lot of brands were dying and, you know, we flourished.

My gosh, you know, walk me through.

Okay.

Because it's one thing.

It's one thing to get your product on a shelf, right.

It's a whole nother thing to have a consumer walk by and know what they're buying.

Absolutely.

Walk me through that part, you know, like, because I'm sure you took the win.

You're like, yeah, we're on sobey shelves.

But, like, without the grand public knowing about nature Mary, you know, how did you.

How do you get them to buy nature Mary, and not, you know, the product sitting right next to it?

Totally.

So we really struggled with this in the beginning.

You know, like you said, we thought that getting on that shelf was the big victory.

The big victory is getting off that shelf and having those reorders, not retention happening.

And that's something that we didn't really understand in the beginning because we really dealt with a lot of smaller locations that were very, very concise, had a very concise customer base, and a very small offering on their shelves.

For us now to be competing in a large, big box was extremely difficult.

We didn't know anything about that.

We didn't know we had to be marketing outside.

We thought our customers would follow us into those stores.

You've got to convince that customer to go follow you into that store.

So if you don't have, you know, and again, this is what I consult with many of my brands now is that if you don't have a strong following that's going to follow you into that retailer, or B, having a marketing budget to be able to educate the consumer to where that product is placed on the shelf.

These are the two most important things when it comes to being in brick and mortar retail.

So, Kelly, we really struggled with that in the beginning.

You know, our retention was low, the reorders were low.

You know, we hired a broker at the time, which we thought was, you know, the sales and marketing aspect of it, but really that was only just getting us more shelves, and then at that point, stretching ourselves for the dinner, and we're like, okay, well, now we've got you know, more stores, but now we've got to increase our budget to be able to get those products off the shelf.

You know, we really struggle with that for the first two years.

2022, 2023, we really did struggle with that.

We realized that, you know, we were in a highly competitive category, which was beauty and skin care.

We had a wellness perspective to our products.

But what does that take?

It takes marketing and education, which costs money, which we obviously didn't have at the time.

You know, kind of re, you know, restructuring sort of some of our listings.

You know, we spent a lot of time throughout 2023 in R& D and reformulation of the pain relief products, which we knew was sort of our value prop as being an alternative to cbd.

And in the beginning, explaining that in a body care, a beauty product doesn't really make any sense and it's costing a lot of money in, in marketing and education.

So a previous broker that we had didn't really tell us any of this.

They're like, well, listen, you know, if you don't have a marketing budget, you're not going to be successful.

Well, what does that mean?

What does that mean if I don't have a marketing budget?

We had to relearn that, you know, the hard way.

So we lost listings, we pulled back from certain listings where we felt that the product just didn't make sense, you know, sitting on some of those shelves.

And that was the hard part.

I think going through a lot of that journey.

Again, learning and pivoting was extremely, extremely difficult for us because, you know, you think you get on that shelf and that's the ultimate win.

You think you land the whale of a distributor.

That's the ultimate win.

Dude, you got to roll your sleeves up and get to work because now you've got to really talk to those stores, work out their planning, understanding who your, your, your target customer is, who their target consumer is, and do they even match, do they even blend?

And at that time, we didn't know any of that.

You know, building a customer profile, you know, understanding who our target consumer is.

It's something that we just didn't do.

We just thought, okay, anyone's going to come by this because it's a great product.

So we say, but that's not really the case.

So, yeah, a lot of pivots, a lot of learns, a lot of money spent, a lot of money lost, but a lot of lessons learned.

And that's a big thing for us now.

So whether it's radio, tv, print, we have A very, very strong digital ad campaigns that are starting now not only for E commerce, but also consumer education.

Where can they find these products in these retailers?

So that's been a really big focus for us now in 2024 and really 2025 going into, going into the new year Q1, Q2, we've built a massive budget just to spend on ad spend to educate that consumer, drive them into the retailer.

So, yeah, a lot of lessons learned on how to get it off the shelf.

Very important.

Yeah.

Well, if you build it, they will not necessarily come.

It's fine.

Oh, we build it, they'll come.

But no, not the case at all.

And it's crazy because it's, it's just as relevant for like a show just like this.

Right.

I can have a thousand great episodes, but if I'm not working every day to educate the public that it's out here that something like this is available to them on a weekly basis, they're not gonna likely just stumble upon it.

Actually, we got kind of lucky because by naming the show the Business Development Podcast, whenever somebody searched Business Development, the algorithm popped us up.

And I'll be honest, I want to say that that was intentional.

It wasn't.

I just, I knew that I wanted a show and that name was available.

I was like, well, if it's the business development podcast, people will obviously listen.

And I was right.

But it was a, it was not like a concise plan.

I, I know when I saw the name I was like, well, now I have to do it.

Right.

But like, I didn't start out with that plan in mind.

That's amazing.

It's nice when things work out like that, right?

Yeah.

But it does not mean that that is the.

We get people to the show.

Right.

Like, I'm having to spend consistently on Spotify, on, you know, podcast platforms, on meta and Facebook ads.

Right.

You're right.

It's an education campaign.

And it doesn't matter if you sell a product, a service, whatever it is, people are not just going to be banging your door down.

You have to be actively teaching them that you exist.

So, so true.

You know, out of the stuff that you mentioned, what has given you the best ROI on your marketing spend with a product?

So fully loaded.

Question from for sure.

You know, I've really been focused.

I think my strength comes from large scale wholesale and B2B, that's really the world that I came from.

So for me, the easiest path of path of least resistance to me is picking up the phone, sending out a wholesale order Getting it on a shelf, that's the easiest part for me.

I thrive there.

I thrive there.

What's difficult, obviously, now that I'm learning is getting that product off the shelf and sort of what we need to sort of focus on going forward.

Forward when it comes to customer education, retention and keeping the retailer happy, a big focus for us now going 2025.

Many of my retailers are not happy to hear this, but is direct to consumer e commerce.

That is the number one place where we know that our ad dollar is being spent to educate a consumer and then we're able to drive that traffic immediately to the website and then allow the website to do the, you know, the final push through for the sale and then obviously get them into some funnel.

So, you know, what we've noticed now is the immediate ROI for us is really ad spent when we're doing our digital marketing now, now we've noticed that it's the most engagement, the most question and answer sort of back and forth with customers.

Majority of what we see in many ads is if they're not buying online.

Where can I find this?

In a store near me.

I live in Saskatchewan, I live in Moose Jaw, I live in Ontario, I live in rural Quebec.

We're seeing that on our ads all the time now.

And that's what's been leading to direct sales on online as well as being able to send them to a retailer.

You know, that we're listed with.

The nice thing about now having these national accounts.

So when you've got a lot of the one off, you know, sort of smaller accounts, particularly through some of the distributors that we deal with a lot of smaller accounts that are just one, they're one location and it's really hard to, to market to that one location because, you know, we would spend endless amounts of money trying to figure that out.

The nice thing about having a national account is that I can say, hey, go to your local Sobeys, Safeway, Thrifties, Drugs, IGA and go pick this product up.

Because I know that it's there so that I know now going forward is going to be, it's going to be helping us a lot to be able to drive specific traffic to locations that I know the product is sitting in.

So yeah, I mean the immediate ROI that we've seen right away has been the digital marketing.

We are now participating in some of the flyer campaigns and you know, the seasonal marketing that many of the retailers do, but we haven't really seen the immediate ROI on that.

But I think when I speak of roi.

It's also keeping and appeasing my partners because, you know, participating in part of their marketing campaigns and plans shows that we're committed to them.

It shows that we're committed to the long term journey here and the long term goals that we both share.

So yeah, I mean, you know, we're definitely dipping our toes into that a little bit now just to, you know, again, appease the retailer, but also, you know, hope that that does lead to some long term, you know, gain for both of us.

Yeah.

But at the end of the day, yeah, digital marketing is the, is the path of least resistance that we're finding right now.

Well, and I can see that because you can immediately look at how many people, right.

Like when you're doing radio ads or whatever else tv, there's no data.

Right.

Maybe they do go Sobeys.

You don't know until Sobeys places another order and hopefully it's a big one.

You're so right.

You're so right.

It's really hard, it's really hard to collect that data.

Data often doesn't exist.

You've got to try to find it.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, talk to me about, about when you took it to like a digital ad spend.

Did you guys end up hiring like a company to help you out with that?

For me, it's a really, I still struggle with that.

You know, I mean digital ads was never my world.

I'm learning it every single day and so I gain less whenever I have this kind of conversation.

Totally.

You know, of the digital ad spend, what approach did you take?

Do you, do you run Google Ads?

Like what has worked the best for nature?

Mary.

Very, very exciting to share this.

So in the beginning we went through so many agencies, broke through so much budget trying to figure things out.

What I know now, I wish I knew then compared to sort of some of the agencies I did hire that were really just out there to spend my money and hope for the best preparation, obviously making sure that your website or whatever your medium and your form is, is, is optimized for that, for that viewer, you know, for that traffic.

We're really fortunate right now.

We just partnered with a agency.

You know, they don't have to call themselves an agency.

They're really a growth, growth partner.

They've actually invested in us.

So not only are we engaging them as an agency for digital ads, but they've also, they're also, you know, invested in our exit in our future, which is really exciting.

These guys are just killers.

They are the top of the Top.

These guys actually came through a friend of mine.

So a friend of mine owns a, owns a product based company.

He is strictly E commerce.

He's doing about 4 million a month right now in revenue with these guys.

Wow.

Incredible.

So this has been another, another story of eight months to a year of trying to get these guys on board.

Their retainer was so massive.

That was just something that we couldn't afford.

We sort of left it on the back burner.

We're like, hey, well we'll come back to you guys when we're ready.

And I was really only interested in them because they were of the proof and the fact that, you know, they're, they're able to do this.

They're very selective on the brands that they bring on.

So they don't bring on just anybody.

You know, they manage six to eight accounts a year or every two years.

Their focus on, you know, exiting within 36 to 48 months with that company, you know, really kind of building it and then exiting and selling it and then we just kind of recycling that, that, that model.

So we just engaged with them.

They came on as a partner, so they've invested in us and it's like we're just getting started with them right now.

So we're in like week three, week three, just testing, testing digital, digital creatives.

Right now.

We're doing commercials right now.

I'll share some stuff with you after the call and I'll send it over to you.

But it is just, it is impressive.

And really, you know, they have the track record to prove it.

Like they've done it before.

They do it continuously, you know, consistently.

And that's what we're really, really excited about right now.

So, you know, to be able to not only drive the revenue that I'm looking at driving here, you know, they're pretty confident we can get to a million a month, you know, in the next 12 months.

Months, which is really exciting.

But not only that, it's really about retaining that customer and that customer data is what is crucial in terms of the growth of the business.

Not only do we know who our target is, but now how do we nurture them and how do we make sure that they stay lifelong customers?

Are we offering additional product offers that can help in different areas of their life?

So say if they're a pain relief user of our, of ours, you know, we've got, you know, anti aging face oils that can help with that, you know, with help with that same consumer.

So we're trying to find those, those overlaps and so that a lot of that testing is happening right now.

But we're extremely excited about this partner and we know that it's going to take us to take us to the moon where, you know, where we know they can take us.

So very excited.

Well, that's amazing.

And you know, I, while we're going to the moon, I want to spend some time chatting about a company growing as fast as nature Mary is because I think we all look at success and we're like, oh, that would be amazing.

But like, talk to me about what it is like to manage a company growing as quickly as nature Mary.

Like you said, you could be doing a million dollars a month in product heck by the time this show is out.

You know, what is, what has it been like to have to learn skills to, to manage growth like that?

You know, what are some of the lessons you've learned while growing the company at this, at this scale?

Yeah.

So those lessons are happening right now.

So Sonia again had a conversation this morning about, you know, she needs a full time QA person at our, at our second facility now.

We've just recently received our GMP certification from Health Canada.

So we were able to open our second facility where we control all of our manufacturing now, which is exciting.

Massive, massive win, just over the last month and a half.

But yeah, you know, operations wise, it's very, very difficult.

You know, we're, Sonia and I are constantly wearing 100 hats.

You know, we're juggling so many responsibilities as we're growing and scaling at this pace.

This is why, you know, I think, you know, bringing on a capital partner right now for us, not only for the money aspect, it's really for the strategic growth aspect.

That's really what I'm after, you know, even more than money right now.

I think that obviously money helps, you know, it helps you prepare for all the things that, you know, you're going to need, you know, while you're scaling.

But at the end of the day, it's really about being focused on, you know, a team that can really help sustain the growth.

So right now, you know, we know that we need a full time QA person.

I really need a full time office manager that's really able to bridge the gap between my sales and marketing side and Sonia's production and R and D side.

So that's really some of the gaps that we've identified immediately.

We know there's some immediate hires that need to happen right now.

It's just about timing, you know, financing and funding and all of that.

So, yeah, it's, it's a tricky part of, part of scaling.

You don't want to go too fast because obviously you don't have the infrastructure behind you to support that growth.

But you also don't want to move too slow or you miss out on opportunities.

So it's again, a delicate, delicate balance right now, Kelly, that we're, we're facing right now.

So we've got a couple, you know, we have part time and full time staff on the, on the production side, on the sales side.

I've been very fortunate to be able to bring on a commission based sales team.

I've got 21 guys on my sales team right now that are just rocking and rolling.

They're getting very, very healthy and hefty commissions.

But, you know, I obviously want to reward that, reward the work.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, it's about kind of identifying the gaps, identifying some of the weaker points, you know, within the chain and within the cycle and then being able to sort of fill those gaps.

But yeah, we're going all, we're going through that right now.

And you know, like I said, I mean, it's, you know, I'm always up for the challenge.

It's always fun for me to kind of figure these things out.

But I wouldn't say that it's not painful.

It is painful.

And trying to figure it out is definitely a challenge.

My gosh.

I was gonna say, I think every lesson I've learned the hard way.

You know, I know we have a lot of people listening right now, Capill, who are like, okay, this sounds cool.

Like, I like the idea of this terpene based, you know, medical products, health products, but what are they?

I know everyone's asking like, what are these things?

I think we need to order some, but what are they?

So can you introduce us to your product line?

For sure, for sure.

So as I mentioned before, we started with body care.

So our body care line is typical stuff that you'd expect to see.

So some face oils, face sprays, a couple unique products.

We, we just won the Maiden Alberta award for unique beauty product with our bath tees.

And essentially what the bath tees are, it's a combination product.

It's a big tea bag.

It's full of salts, clays, botanicals, essential oils, and our terpene blend.

So essentially it's a bath product, but it really offers relaxation, you know, de stressing, you know, just really kind of helping with a lot of that pain.

And you know, some of the stuff that we Carry around with us all day long where we're transitioning.

What I'm, what I'm really excited about is our pain relief products.

So we use our terpene blends as an alternative to cbd, as I mentioned.

And those products really target muscle and joint pain, inflammation.

You know, I've got one right here called therapy.

This is our pain relief roll on.

And this is a really, really amazing product really for athletes, people that have kind of chronic conditions such as arthritis.

You know, rheumatoid arthritis is really one of the bigger focuses that we have.

Muscle and joint pain, just average aches and pains.

We have four new SKUs.

There are three new, three new pain relief skus that we've just launched.

One's a recovery pain stick.

So it's a salve stick.

Our rescue cream is a cream slash skincare product.

We've got a little mini headache roller called Hedi.

So all these products are all focused on inflammation control, pain relief and really addressing a very, very large, large market.

You know, pain starts at 30, 35, as I'm sure you know, Kelly, something that I never thought of.

I'm 35, I'm a 9 month old kid.

I don't think I've had a great sleep in at least nine months.

I wake up a little sore.

So I think I might need to, I mean we might need to talk.

I'm going to send you a nice tag of our pain relief and, and some, some oil blends that are going to help help with that sleep for sure.

But yeah, you know, Honestly, you know, 35 plus is really our target demographic.

We're now with the pain stick.

We're moving into more the athlete active lifestyle recovery sector.

But yeah, I mean that's really what we're focused on.

We're really focused on helping people manage their pain and making their day, their day to day, just a lot better.

So that's really what, what our main focus is.

And you mentioned that anybody listening can ultimately just order this directly through your website.

What is that website?

Yeah, so our website's naturemary.com there's a lot of, a lot of cool bundles there.

A lot of cool different packages.

Join our mailing list.

You'll save right away on the first order.

And if you're not an E Commerce kind of buyer, you know, we're available close to a thousand locations across the country.

As you mentioned the beginning of this podcast, Kelly, our store locator needs to be updated.

We're not, it's not fully reflective of all the locations that we're in.

But always feel free to message our customer service, let them know you know where you are, and we'll be happy to find you a location.

But E Commerce is the.

Is the fastest way.

We've got the fastest processing time, and I'm very proud of that.

And we've got some of the fastest shipping times as well.

So oftentimes in the west, people will receive their orders the same day.

Awesome.

Awesome.

And I know we have like a pretty large American and worldwide listenership.

Right.

Are these able to be exported?

Absolutely.

So the nice thing about being an alternative to CBD is that we have no restrictions when it comes to being able to ship worldwide.

A big part of our value prop was being able to open up markets that otherwise were banning cannabis imports and exports.

So, you know, that's why we're receiving offers and letters of intent from Vietnam, from China, from Singapore, a lot of countries that Middle east where, you know, you just wouldn't be able to find a CBD product.

The nice thing that I like to say is that we're TSA and CBSA compliant, so you're able to fly with our products.

We're all under the threshold of liquid and we're also, you know, all natural and not controlled substance.

So, yeah, I know we ship a lot to the us we ship to the uk.

We had some orders coming yesterday from the uk, Germany, Middle East, I mean, all over the place.

So.

So, yeah, to everyone listening out there, we're definitely available, you know, global, worldwide, amazing.

And you know what?

I know there's people listening right now who are like, you know what?

I could use some weekly inspiration.

I think I want to follow Kapil.

What's the best way for people to reach out to you directly?

Definitely follow me on LinkedIn.

I always say I'm super, super active on LinkedIn.

I post almost daily.

I've got my scheduled posts that go oftentimes.

I'll make up a post that day of just a thought that I have in my mind.

My name is Kapil Kalar.

K A P I L K A L R A.

You'll.

You'll probably pretty easily be able to find me.

You'll see that I'm the president of Natureberry.

Yeah.

Follow me on.

Follow me on LinkedIn.

DM me.

I'm always down to talk and chat.

I always answer every single call, email, text message, dm.

So, yeah, I'm not the guy to leave you on red.

I will absolutely answer you for sure.

Oh, my gosh.

Dude, this has been, you know, it's been an honor.

Honestly, I've been looking forward to this, I feel like for at least a year.

And just thank you for taking the time today to chat with me.

Thank you for having me and thank you for being patient.

I was hoping that you were going to say, you know what, you're not welcome here anymore and move on.

But now, Kelly, man, you've been amazing.

I really appreciate it.

I love what you're doing.

I'm definitely going to be a sponsor here pretty soon, I'm sure.

I mean, so we're definitely going to help you out there.

And you know, like I said, you give so much to the business community and you know, people that just want to, you know, want to learn and want to hear and I think it's really part of the ecosystem to be able to support each other.

So, yeah, let's keep the combo flowing.

And I'm always, I'm always here for you, man.

Always.

Oh, thanks, dude.

I appreciate it.

No, it is a community, right?

Like, the reality is all of us are in it together.

And I would say especially here in like Edmonton, Alberta, Calgary, my gosh, we have an amazing entrepreneurial community and like, any way that I can support that.

I want really, really, really appreciate it, man.

You're doing, like I said, you're doing an amazing job.

You interview some, some pretty amazing people that are doing some incredible things and I'm just, like I said, I'm just honored to be, you know, to be in that, in that mix.

So I appreciate it.

Well, you belong, man.

You're there.

You're there just as much as everyone else.

Thanks man.

I really appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Until next time, this has been episode 254 of the Business Development podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

This has been the business Development podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in, in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

For more we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.

see you next time on the business development podcast.