The Coming Space Boom of 2036 and Why We’re Not Ready with Jason Michaud

Welcome to episode 280 of the Business Development Podcast.

What if I told you that the next trillion dollar industry is already on the launch pad?

In this episode of the Business Development Podcast, I sit down with Jason Michaud, founder and CEO of Stardust Technologies, to talk about the coming space boom of 2036 and why we might not be ready for it.

From Canada's role in the new space race to the innovations shaping our future among the stars, this episode will open your eyes to what is really coming.

Stick with us.

You don't want to miss this episode.

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Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to episode 280 of the Business Development Podcast and today it is my absolute pleasure to bring you Jason Michaud.

Jason is a visionary in the space industry and he hails from Daboulville.

Jason overcame the challenges of an isolated upbringing to pursue his passion for stem.

He became the first in his family to graduate from high school and studied computer sciences at college boreal.

In 2014, Jason founded Stardust Technologies with a mission to revolutionize the space industry through innovation and accessibility.

Under his leadership, Stardust has launched numerous international projects, including the groundbreaking Anangaka Festival, the largest space festival in Canadian history, and has collaborated with institutions such as the Canadian Space Agency and the National Research Council of Canada.

Jason's contributions to space exploration are vast and varied.

From his work on the Serenity Project to his development of the first Indigenous space agency and the creation of thea, the world's first lunar analog habitat.

His efforts have not only advanced technological innovation, but have also empowered Indigenous communities and promoted STEM education.

Through initiatives like the Stardust Space center and the Stardust Alliance, Jason has inspired countless youth to pursue careers in stem.

Jason Michaud is not just making strides in space.

He's creating a legacy that bridges the stars and the earth, ensuring that space exploration is inclusive and innovative and within everyone's reach.

Jason, it is a honor to have you on the show today.

It's a pleasure to being here today and after many tries, I do appreciate you being patient with me and I'm very excited.

I love your energy and I'm really excited to get into it.

Dude, me too.

I love space.

I've talked about this like a lot and I haven't met.

I've been trying to get Canadians on here to come and chat with me about space, and it's hard, man.

You got.

You guys are busy.

Yeah.

Or too shy, you know.

Yeah, for sure.

Whatever.

Either one.

Either one.

You know, I just think it's incredible that we have people like you representing Canada out there.

And so just first off, before we get started here, thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for doing the incredible things for Canada that you are doing.

And I'm, I'm.

I gotta do it because if I don't do it, no one else is going to do it.

And we gotta make space, space more accessible to everyone because if we don't, then we're going to have other kids repeat the same thing as I went through when I was growing up.

Just no accessibility.

And you're stuck in an industry that you don't want to be with.

And we need to create what the changes that we wish to.

To see.

Absolutely, absolutely.

And you know, it's like, it's, it's unfortunate because Canada is full of a lot of very smart people, a lot of very smart engineers doing really cool stuff.

And unfortunately, they're just not getting the spotlight that they really should be.

We're doing some incredible things and yet it's like all you hear about is, you know, stuff coming out of the states for the most part.

Right.

You have a major brain drain in Canada, unfortunately.

And it's.

What happens is a lot of time, it's because our own government is basically competing against us and you're trying to create these opportunities.

But the pie is just, let's say you have a pie and then your bigger brother is like, I'm going to eat 90% of the pie.

You get the crumbs.

And that's it.

You know, it's, it's almost bullying if you think about it.

But.

And then they, they ask you, how do I change that?

And whatnot.

And it's really.

We need to advocate at the provincial level to have provincial space agencies or provincial space grant consortium like the US has.

Because if you go to the us, each state has a grant, a space grant consortium.

And if you go to Australia, each state, provinces have their own investment in space sectors.

So it's really important to create these other pathways to the space sector.

Not only be just the one pathway, if you go to the US you're able to either work with NASA or countless of businesses.

Whether it's SpaceX, Blue Origin, Sierra Nevada or Sierra Space, Lockheed Martin and whatnot.

There's so much opportunities, but here we eat the dreams of our kids.

Wow.

Yeah, you know, I mean, as a kid who grew up, you know, loving model rockets and flying model planes, dude, I've been doing that since I was like 16 years old.

I just, I have a total passion for aviation and I just love space, man.

I think it's absolutely incredible that we've gone to the moon.

I like, I just, I think we've done some crazy stuff.

You know, the Saturn 5 rocket is still like the most impressive piece of machinery that humankind has created.

And we built that what, like 60, 70 years ago, like what the hell.

Nothing since, you know, we just built.

This incredible stuff all, you know, as humanity and then we're just like, oh yeah, like whatever, we're not going to go back to the moon.

Or it's like.

That'S going to change.

Unfortunately, there's lots of changes on the horizon for space.

As I said earlier, space is going to become more accessible if we start focusing a lot more on commercial space and if we start building rockets on the surface of the, the moon and space habitats and whatnot, we're going there to stay this time around.

We're not the, the commercial sector is not planning on just sitting down and you know, wait 60 years because money doesn't come to your account on its own.

Right?

Yeah.

And to change, to do nation building and world building, you need to really work your rear off.

Otherwise you're, you're just sitting ducks and nothing happens.

So we really got to get together, desiloize space and really empower the future.

And whatever it takes is make space accessible to everyone by going to nation.

Because otherwise we're only always going to think, oh, it's just the U.S. and that's it.

In Canada, I know not many people that know we have a Canadian space agency outside of Montreal or the sector itself.

So they're always like, well, you know, we launch with NASA and that's it.

Apart from that, like what do we do?

Right?

We have had some great legacy stuff which are not celebrated enough and we have a wonderful company such as MDA building the Canadarm and whatnot, but there's no display of what the others are.

So we have A huge marketing problem when it comes to space.

But at the same time I feel the people that don't want to talk too much about it because as soon as they do, they get ripped on by their own people.

It's basically a vulture world, if you want me to put it that way.

A lot of people are looking at, let's say you go to a place like Texas, they control millions of dollars to go establish yourself there.

But you go to Ontario, they have a hard time giving you $50,000 or $5, you know, so that's got to change and we got to take space more seriously rather than laughing at it.

There's too much politicians and people that think the earth is flat in Canada.

No offense, but at the end of the day we need to start with education and planting the seed of tomorrow yesterday.

Yeah, well, I, I think it starts with dreamers, right?

Starts with people like you who looked up and said, you know what, we can do more there.

Crazy people, right?

Like, I don't know.

I know there's light pollution.

Maybe we're just not seeing the stars anymore.

I don't know.

You know, as a kid that grew up in the North, I am very, I take it too for granted.

I see the northern lights like probably 10 times this year and I see the stars and the Milky Way and everything almost like every day in the north when it's not cloudy.

So it's, it's, you know, you, you take it so for granted.

You don't really like look beyond that, but it's like, wow.

Like you take people from the south up in the north, they're like, wow.

Like how is this possible?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Jason, take me back on this path, man.

Like you're doing some incredible stuff.

You got stardust, man.

Like you are a pretty cool founder.

I just got to throw that out there for like just cool things.

Every once in a while I run into somebody who's doing something pretty incredible.

I met, you know, Scott Bryson, I mentioned before this with Orbital farms, with the idea of making circular system that are self sustainable in space or on arid places on this planet.

And I just see like the stuff that you're doing and you know, take me into it.

Who is Jason Michad?

How did you end up on this journey?

Well, let's start with I'm stubborn.

My, my, my, my family is so, so from my grandfather's side.

They've been in Canada since the Acadians came to Canada.

So like more than 400 years ago in the.

So like the Cajun they would call in the States.

And basically my family has been really much into nation building.

My grandfather was one of the first workers that came to Duberville when they built the community.

And one thing that really saddened me is that the people that went into business in my family always got crushed on and whatnot.

And it's always been hard to start a business in the family because especially in the north, as I said, we always destroy our own.

And when they want to start doing business, there was always someone to steal from you or take advantage of it.

So it really taught me that, you know, like, if I'm going to do business, I cannot listen to anyone and I can't even take advice.

So it's a very lonely world when I started, because when I wanted to start in business everyone was like, don't do it, you're not going to last more than six months and whatnot.

Here I am 10 plus years and basically I was told by even family, like, go in the lumber industry, don't even go to college, we just want you to have a grade 12 and that's it.

And my grandfather, basically he got kicked out of school when he was in fourth grade because he was deaf or not listening properly.

I failed first grade when I was a kid because I had, I have adhd, as you could probably tell.

And basically I always wanted to seek the next like big thing.

It kind of drove me.

But in one adhd sometimes someone tells you you can't do it, you're like, hold my beer, I'm going to do it.

But nevertheless, so I wanted to do something challenging.

I got into the IT world.

I studied in Kales Bar in Aptic and VR.

I was interested in helping the mining sector through training and whatnot.

But I, I did a lot of it and some cool projects over the years.

Some that worked, some that didn't work.

Like everyone, we gotta learn that failure is a teacher and it's the best teacher.

You'll never get that experience in schools.

And essentially at the time we saw that astronauts could.

Scott Kelly went to the ISS for a year and one of his biggest struggle was mental health.

So mental health people didn't really care about that before COVID people were laughing at it when we talked about it, even VR.

So we, we decided at the time the team to develop an application to help astronauts with mental health through the use of VR and optic feedback so that they could hug their loved ones from the International Space Station to Earth and almost feel in real time so you feel more connected with your loved ones without having to be up there.

So as space evolved more, I felt very lonely.

The space sector.

I felt very vulnerable, very alone because I couldn't even talk to the people at the Canadian Space Agency whatnot.

I had to get to my MP to go through the side door, not the front door.

I had to get to the side door because otherwise no one was listening.

You're just a little speck of us.

So it's very unfortunate.

So at the time MDA wasn't Canadian yet.

When I started, they were owned by Maxar in the US So there was not that much of a presence.

And if you were in space, you were there since the 70s in Canada.

So if you are there, then no one else is allowed in.

You only get in if you know people.

Yeah.

So I got told, look, go to the US Go check out what's going on at Space Symposium in Colorado a number of years ago.

And I went there and I met the whole different world that I was not expecting.

I did not expect that because I wasn't really used to traveling.

And when I got there I'm like, I found my family.

I found my freaking space family.

I felt like I finally belonged in my life.

I felt like I could be myself and I could.

You know when you're talking to people and you're excited and you're like having the butterflies, basically you're like, look, I'm talking about the same subject and I'm not being told I'm.

I'm weird or you know, if I talk to people in the north about space, we'll talk about.

They'll switch automatically to mining or something else that they're complaining about.

And they won't listen.

No one wants to listen.

So I felt like I was being heard for the first time in my life.

And I, after the fact, I got invited to go to Dubai and represent Canada the world stage at the World Expos during the Space Thematic Forum.

No one wanted to go to Dubai.

It was during the COVID and no one wanted to go there because they're like automatically think, oh, it's the uae and you know how we have this view of the Middle east and whatnot.

So I'm like, no, you, you guys have.

You don't understand what it is.

So I went there, I took a chance.

I went there for two weeks.

I got this opportunity to meet so many wonderful people making change in the space sector and really got to talk my mind of how it should be.

And I've met some wonderful partners and business opportunities since then.

And I, I really shifted my gear to be like, look, let's take nation building and economic prosperity and bring it to the North.

I could go anywhere else.

I've been invited to go work in the US many, many times.

I've been told, go work in Europe and whatnot.

But I'm stubborn and I want my north to thrive.

So I want the north to really have these opportunities that I never had as a kid.

Because going to school as a kid, if someone showed up once in the four years you're there, you're literally like, oh, wow.

He inspired me.

But then there's no follow up.

It's just a checkbox.

The government loves to do checkboxes.

They don't go to the remote areas, they just go to the these city areas, these urban areas and they call it a day because hey, we got what we need.

It only takes one person you inspire that can change the world.

It only takes one or two kids.

And that's what our government's not understanding.

So I am on a mission to change that, to make space accessible to everyone.

And I started in my own backyard, started the Stardust Festival, which became the Anangoka Festival in honor of my late adoptive father, Larry Latham, that passed away unfortunately of a heart attack in the mining sector.

Basically I wanted to create an environment where you're able to do what you love and not just work till you die doing what you're just doing for the sake of money.

Because if I give you an example, which is my father, he passed away two years ago and he like, the last thing I, I, I said to him is like, hey, I got invited to go to Australia for space sector.

And he always wanted to go to Australia.

I said two weeks before he died, and I didn't know he was going to die at 56 years old.

I said, look, it would be great if we finally go.

And he's like, you know, when I'm retired, we can go.

And that's the mentality we have.

We work ourselves to debt for money, we indebt ourselves and we do not live.

And the space industry makes me feel alive.

It really gives that once you become part of it, it's a huge family around the world.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of drama, there's a lot of division, there's a lot of people hating each other and whatnot.

There's a lot of fakeness.

But you know, I just like to say it how it is and not too many people like that.

But we're creating a whole culture.

We're creating a new culture.

And we want you to be part of the space sector, not just me.

I want you to be part of it.

And you are part of it now because you're talking to space people and you're going to interview more people.

So ultimately that's what drives me and got me to where I'm at.

And now we're doing some wonderful work in the Middle East.

We're doing some work in different continents and bringing space and developing their space policy and education and developing some other stuff that I wish I could talk more about today, but I will later time if you're interested.

Absolutely.

No, that's incredible.

And I just want to start out by saying I'm really terribly sorry about the loss of your father.

And I think it's incredible that you honor him with Anangaka Festival.

That is.

That is incredible.

He sounds like a great person and clearly he raised a very incredible individual.

Thank you.

You know, before we get into that though, I just want to talk about, about the Canadian space sector.

Like I said, I've talked to one person, Scott Bryson.

Yeah, I have very little.

Like.

And, and it's funny, I've tried to get a hold of the guys at Wyvern.

I'm sure I'll get them eventually.

But, you know, we got Wyvern in our backyard here in Alberta and they.

Built a knock at the door.

But you're right, it is, it's, it's.

You can almost count on one hand the amount of companies that are like advertising that they work for the space sector in Canada.

Like, it's, it seems very small and.

Silos and so I'll tell you, this conference is how it is.

It's space people talking to space people.

It's literally like a big circle.

You're going to a space conference, like IEC for an instance, you're seeing the same people.

Then you go to another conference and it's always, hey, we should work together, we should do this.

But we're not talking to the non space people.

The non space people are the ones that are going to change the world.

And we need to bring these people into the space sector so we're not like, why don't they understand?

Rather than complaining that they don't understand, go see them and make them see what space is about.

And there's so much misconception.

Like even in my own family, there's sometimes there's people that think space never happened and the moon never happened and whatnot.

You know, we're buddies and whatnot.

Still love my family, don't get me wrong.

But I wish that there was more space education and it was not just a minor subject when it comes to science in school.

Because most teachers in North America, especially in Canada, will ignore the subject.

They won't talk about it because they don't know enough about it, but because we are not advertising that we even have it.

Yeah, and I think you're right.

I think it is just a lack of understanding because I think, you know, it is a silo and, and probably people in the public teaching sector don't have any connection with the space sector at.

So why would that, like they wouldn't want to talk about it because they don't understand it.

You know, I mean for me, if I can bring even like a little bit of understanding, I'm proud of that.

Like, I think that's the small contribution that maybe I can make here.

But space is amazing and it's the future.

And I want to talk with you about that because when we started this chat Today, you mentioned 2036 is going to be a pretty special time.

What happens in 2036.

So by 202036 is projected by all the major stockbrokers in New York City and whatnot.

So that space sector is going to surpass the semiconductor industry which is the largest market on the world right now, to be a trillion dollar industry.

And we're literally going to have like how we had the Internet boom, we're going to have the space boom, we're going to have everyone being part of that whole CIS lunar economy where we're literally sending people to stay on the moon, but also providing logistics, whether it's food, fuel, whatever we need to support it and bringing stuff back.

So it's going to become part of our economy.

And that's the only way we save the economy is by growing it outward.

Because if we just stay here, we're going to keep stagnant and people are going to still stay poor.

So we need to go out there and to avoid war as much as possible is to go out there to create these opportunities so that there's enough resources for everybody to share.

You know, and then you got the space mining, there's space health and you know, every time every dollar spent on the NASA programs as literally basically gave back five times what it was costing.

And most people don't understand that.

The politicians don't get that, that, that dollar.

Look at just diapers.

Diapers were revolutionized just so astronauts didn't crap themselves in space, you know.

You know, like, we can thank them for that.

Unless you're on.

Unless you prefer the reusable diapers.

Go ahead if you want to.

But you know, with my.

To use my.

Those diapers and thank God they're there, so.

Me too.

So I mean, like Velcro.

I mean, like, all the.

We're talking because of the Internet today.

Sure.

You're able to do a podcast and run your business due to the Internet today.

Sorry.

My huskies in the background.

All good.

It's a day of dogs.

My last interview.

Had a great day.

And so there you go.

Oh, there you go, my husky.

Every time I'm on a zoom or anything like that, she has to put in a few words.

That's right.

Yeah.

But, yeah, you know, so any of these technologies that we're using, even like the mining sector, is like the space sector depends on the mining sector.

The aerospace sector depends on the mining sector.

Everything depends on each other.

But we don't realize how interconnected it is.

If we don't have the mining sector, we don't have the space sector.

If we don't have natural gas, there's no starships going up there.

So, I mean, there's so many, like, areas.

But we're doing something such a crappy job at advertising it.

And don't get me wrong, is because the more we put ourselves out there, we are vulnerable, and then we get people attacking us.

Yeah.

Okay, so I want to lead into that, then.

Jason, talk to me about Canada.

Right?

This is our country.

We're proud of it.

We love being Canadian.

Right.

What the heck is going on?

Why are we not like we're the.

What?

We're one of the biggest.

We are like, the second biggest land mass per country on planet Earth.

And yet it feels like we're not investing at all in this Future.

That if 2036 is the number is 10 years from today.

That's.

No one wants to take initiative.

No one wants to take initiative.

And they're just waiting to be invited to the table.

What's going to happen is we are frozen in winter, like molass in winter dripping.

And we're literally going to wait till the US has been doing it for 30 years before we get involved.

And we need to change that narrative.

We need to create the table that we want to see.

We need to be the leaders right now.

But whenever you talk about that, people think you're crazy.

They don't want that, or they're afraid of what they can't control, or they're afraid of what they don't understand.

So because of that they are negative towards it and we need to change that.

If you look at historically, we had one of the best fighter jet programs with the Avro project in Canada.

And we basically shut it down and went straight to the US market.

And every time there's innovation, we just do not support our own people.

Don't get me wrong, it's the same thing in North.

People come up from the south to the north and we worship them over our own.

It's because we believe that our own are not able to accomplish what Elon's doing in the States or Jeff Bezos or whatever.

And that's why celebrities or even actors or anything, they all go to the U.S. they all go to the U.S. and they don't come back because they've been burned.

If you look at Capis casing near here, just an hour from me, that's where James Cameron's from.

You don't see any signs of James Cameron at all there.

Like that's not very advertised.

You go to Timmins, an hour from me, that's where Shania Twain is from this.

There's one sign there, but it's crumbling.

And they took the museum and they built a mine on top of it.

You know, like we, we do not advertise what's been going on.

So we need to be better at advertising ourselves, at putting us outside there, but we need to be better at outreaching and going to communities and making it accessible.

But to do that we need funds and the government only does it for checkboxes.

So what we are doing is we're going to the governments in the provincial level and we're working with them to create these space policies and these talent pipelines to get you there.

Because if we just roll our thumbs and do nothing, nothing's gonna happen.

No one's gonna take that initiative because most people see it as too hard of a thing and they only chase the carrot that'll give you money tomorrow rather than a 20 year vision.

There's no 20 year vision, especially in politics.

After three years, not my problem.

Not my pig, not my farm, you know.

Yeah, well, you know, I've had the pleasure of chatting with a lot of very smart individuals from the government and from the private sector on this side.

And it just seems like space isn't even on the radar, right?

Like they're, they're, they're in Ag tech, they're in medtech, they're in AI.

That's where the money's going right.

But I have to ask you, what do you think was the catalyst in the US to go essentially from a national based program like NASA to a more private sector approach?

Like, how does that happen?

How do we get an Elon Musk or a Jeff Bezos?

Where do we get a Blue origin or a SpaceX?

Like, how do we get something like that in Canada?

Or is that even possible in Canada?

It is 100% possible.

You, you literally.

They just need to put investment and incentives and more positivity because at the end of the day, like I said, if you go to Texas, they'll dump millions of dollars on you.

You go to Colorado, you get millions of dollars on you.

But here we can't even give you $5.

We can't even.

You talk about doing space in my backyard here, for an instant I was working on a project years ago where I was getting funding and everything.

And then they changed the person that was in charge of the funding.

They put a person that knew nothing about space, that did not care about technology, couldn't even join a zoom.

And that person literally said, you know, no one wants space here.

Go get the money from them down there.

Then we can consider building.

But we don't understand that we need to build for people to come.

We need to be builders again.

We need to, to change the world.

You need to be a builder.

You can't just be someone that just swoops in and take advantage of.

There's too many people like that, people that are just looking at finding a way to swoop into the crack.

You need to take risks.

You need to not be afraid of taking risk.

And you need to have a long term vision because if it's just short term, nothing's going to happen.

And the only reason the space sector is striving is because you look at people like Elon.

His mission is to go to Mars.

That's a far away mission.

Don't get me wrong.

The dates are always going to change, but the goal is always the same.

You adapt, you fail.

You fail, you fail.

Look at Colonel Sanders.

More than 50 years till he got his recipe proper right.

You know Tim Horton for an example, his first Tim Hortons was in North Bay.

He was born in Cochrane, Ontario, where I'm at.

Yeah.

And he did a Tim Horton in North Bay.

It never took off.

It was hamburgers at the time.

And then it finally took off in Hamilton.

You look at Canada Goose as a company, they didn't take off in Canada, they took off because they went to Europe that's where they took off because of the fade and branding.

People look at us when we go outside of our country and they're like, wow, a Canadian.

But you come back in your own backers.

Like, look at that asshole.

And so interesting.

I love that you chatted about Canadian manufacturing because you're absolutely right.

I think if I find something made in Canada, I'm like, yes, yes, built this, right?

But you don't find almost anything, anything made in Canada anymore.

It's absolutely bonkers.

But you're absolutely right.

We know that if it's made in Canada, it's going to be high quality.

If I see made in Canada, I know it's well done.

And it's funny because I remember talking to my dad about this and my dad's an old guy and he grew up in the 50s.

He's like, he's like, man, back then we built everything.

We manufactured everything.

You're absolutely right.

The arrow was top of the line, a top of the line fighter jet at the time.

There's nothing better than it at that point in time.

And it's crazy to think that.

You're absolutely right.

We went from building incredible things to essentially.

I can barely think of anything that's made in Canada anymore.

You know, if you, you look at like before there was NASA, there was the Harper program, and the first spaceport was actually in Churchill, Manitoba.

Go look at it today.

It's just ruins.

There's nothing.

There's just polar bears just chilling and dancing in there.

And no one's really tried to restart that or anything like that.

The money always goes to the same place.

If you're not in Montreal, Ottawa or Toronto, you're screwed.

Even in Vancouver, they're screwed.

No one wants to go there for space.

You know, we have such a large country.

Why is space all focus at the same area?

You go to the U.S. nASA has space everywhere.

You have Alabama, you have Virginia, you have California, there's space branches everywhere.

You go to D.C. see, you go to Texas, Florida, they have little branches everywhere.

Even Ohio has a, the, the NASA Glenn research facility.

So if we would spread the love a little bit, we may, maybe we'd have a bit more chance.

But again, the government has to stop thinking that they're competing against.

It's almost like people are competing against their own government.

In the States.

What they used to do is they put unlimited like contracts where you get the contract and you'd have unlimited amounts of money to build something.

And then you could just ask for more if you need it.

Well now what they did is after a lot of lobbying for people like Elon and Jeff Bezos and whatnot, they put in, okay, this is let's say figuratively $1 billion contract.

You do not get more, you do not get less.

So a company, someone that's in business is going to work their ass off to make sure they make money plus they achieve the result.

So they get another contract.

Whereas someone that works at government is not going to try to do any better because if they do better, it's going to be expected of them every time.

Yeah.

And they know there's going to be a handout no matter what.

As a business, as a survivor, I mean it's the difference if I get paid next week is the difference between eating a hot dog or a can of tuna, you know.

You know I, I've been over 10 years not paying myself so I mean at the end of the day I know what survival is and the risk to take and no one wants to do that because it's such a hard thing to do.

But if you don't do it, how can you achieve this?

How do you learn?

How do you do nation building?

Teach me, teach me what is going on in what is the Canadian Space Agency?

Bring me into that government aspect of it.

I don't think, I don't think, like I said, I don't think many people listening to the show have any clue what it is, how they operate or what their mission is.

Can you just bring me into the Canadian Space Agency and what they are and maybe what, how they operate?

Yep.

So, so, so, so again the, the CSA there's about 900 employees.

They're, they're basically focused on R D and providing in service support for the, for NASA's count their counterpart NASA and they, they essentially work mainly their most bigger contract.

They go through like MDA and Telesat and whatnot and they provide funding and research for the, the arms and stuff like that or the Canadian rover that's going, it's starting to shift towards private.

But again nothing that makes it openable to a non space company.

Let's say tomorrow you have a company, you do manufacturing, you're welding and stuff like that.

You want to get in the space sector.

Good luck you're not in Quebec, good luck, you're going to need a Quebec tax number, you're going to need to open a Quebec business.

Otherwise good luck we're not going to work with you.

So it's, it's really a political game more than anything.

Because the Canadian Space Agency.

So if you go to the States, NASA is basically its own government entity.

You go to Canada, you have.

I said, which is the innovation Science, Engineering technology, the group of Canada that's focused on innovation.

And then you have the CSA which is under.

So anything that's related to forestry or anything like that will take precedence over space.

So if I said wants to focus on forestry this year the CSA is only going to focus on satellites for forests.

They're not going to focus on anything else.

I understand.

Okay.

Because for instance, like Wyvern is doing some pretty crazy stuff.

But a lot of the stuff they're doing is to check out like fires and things like that.

They're able to see that.

So that.

Okay, I get it.

So essentially anything that we're creating in space has to meet a different.

Yeah.

A different industry parameter or a different industry need.

Not just space exploration.

Exactly.

And then again like what happens too is like, like I've talked to some friends at NASA and like for many years and like a lot of times like when you're doing something with the Canadian government or whatnot in the States, it's literally, look, there's an election upcoming, we can't say anything anymore.

So they bailed on NASA more than once and NASA's like, what the hell man?

You should be able to still function.

But it's so political that they can't.

Their time is more focused on getting money from politicians in Ottawa than it is to helping the industry.

Because one election happens because there's not enough space education, they could lose all their funding.

So I don't blame them because they don't have their funding.

They're screwed.

So there needs to be something that happens so the new space sector is not relying on them.

I'm not funded by the csa.

We work with the partners that are internationally.

We are self made.

We work on creating opportunities for the new space economy.

Whether it's providing food, providing training, providing stuff for the next gold rush.

You know, at the end of the day we need to adapt or else we are not going to be able to thrive in this industry.

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, talk to me.

What is it going to take for this shift to happen?

Because dude, 2036 is not far away.

Like we're going to blink and we're going to be there and now we.

Don'T start doing stuff now.

Okay, so we're talking to a lot of entrepreneurs right now.

We are talking to a lot of startups, founders, entrepreneurs, business development specialists of all types.

How do we make this shift today, guys?

10 years, 10 years from now is what Jason saying is that we are moving to a space based economy.

We're going back to the moon.

Not only are we going back to the moon, we're putting, we're putting facilities on that moon so that we can go from the moon to Mars.

From what I understand, my God, that is a big flipping job.

And that is not just astronauts, right?

That's welders, that's engineers, that's electricians, that's, that could be our kids.

It could be you.

I mean if they make a $25,000 a person, could you imagine that you could go in space for four or five days in space for $25,000.

You know, it's changing and the, some of the older generation does not like that change because they work their asses off to get to where they're at to become it.

But we need to embrace that.

We are, we raised our kids for a world that no longer exists.

I could say like I was raised by, practically raised by my grandparents growing up and they were born in the 1930s.

So I mean I was raised for 100 years ago, not for today.

Right, right, yeah, so.

So we're.

Old ways don't always open new doors.

And we need to find new ways and get creative.

And that's why if we don't talk to our members of parliament or government, they won't know what they're talking about.

They will probably just end up saying space, you're crazy.

But if we educate our members of parliament provincially that they need to be part of this new sector and that they need to do more, then it might change.

But why would you leave this whole industry there, do nothing about it and just focus on the old.

Eventually the old is not what's going to be paying.

Look at what's going on.

I'm not going to get political, but look at the tariffs that we're going to be facing soon.

The lumber industry is in disrepair.

Like we have so many trees.

But how do we come back from these?

Like so many people are going to lose their jobs.

What is left in rural areas?

Mining.

If the mine empty empties, the shareholders, they just leave, they don't care.

There's no one else.

So at the end of the day we need to prepare and have other segments.

I'm not saying abandon the old segments, but make it so that you're open minded to this new sector.

Because if you don't, you're going to be left behind, become a Space cadet.

At the end of the day, you're.

One of a handful of Canadians.

Really, I genuinely mean that.

A handful of Canadians.

There's less of you out there than probably any other types of founders out there.

And I want to talk to you because you talked about it right in the beginning and you said being a founder in space is lonely.

Especially being a founder in space in Canada is extremely isolating and lonely.

It takes balls, it takes bravery, it takes conviction.

Talk to me a little bit about that because that's what we're facing.

We're facing people who say, well, I love space.

You know, they're like me, I love space.

Space is awesome.

I can't wait to go to the moon, I can't wait to go to Mars.

I can't wait to see this new space based economy and what that means for our world and humanity.

Because that's what it is.

Not just a nation, it's humanity, which is crazy and super cool.

But they're afraid, dude, they're afraid.

Like that's, it's not easy.

It's an uphill battle.

There's a thousand other things they can start that at least in the short term feel more productive or feel like they can get that sense of reward.

Talk to me a little bit about what it takes to be a space based founder and how you were able to do that despite all the naysayers.

You need to be very stubborn, have a mindset and be strong headed.

Because you know, like so many times I've contemplated quitting, so many times there's going to be a lot of naysayers, a lot of people just being jealous and or think you're bragging when you're talking about space.

You know, it's unfortunate that people that you love and that friends are, when you talk about something they're like, oh, you're just boasting, you're just boasting, you know, like space is cool but you could be part of the space sector.

I come from a place that is already hard to just get into general business.

I come from a place where, because I'm in the north, right?

So eight hours north of Toronto.

So, so, so basically I'm in a place where I'm told to just be a worker.

I am from when I went to school as a kid, automatically you got adhd.

We're putting you in a class where you're just going to do trades.

You are not fit for college or university.

You are going in that box and that's the box you stay in because we want to put you in that box because you do not think like the others.

I mean, at the end of the day, we, as I said earlier, we eat the dreams of our kids and we need to change, start stopping that negativity.

There's too much negativity.

We.

There's too much people not encouraging their kids to do what they want to do and their love and their passion.

And I get it.

It's not easy.

It's easier to go and like, hey, I'm going to be a welder for the mining sector or whatnot.

I'm just going to do that.

But at the end of the day, we need to be there for one another because we are not realizing we are tearing each other apart in Canada.

We are.

We're basically just doing it just because, let's say when they put a.

A funding application we only have.

It's literally if I put you in a prison cell and I don't feel feed you for like 100 days, and then I put a piece of bread there and everyone's just like fighting for that piece of bread.

It's literally what our economy is in Canada.

And then if you're that one that's like in the corner, that's like the little one, and then you have the big guy, the big guy's gonna take the piece of bread and it's gonna be like, do you have a problem with that?

And you're gonna be like, no, sir, I don't have any problems with it.

Right.

We need to get ourselves out of that stuff, space gel and really make it so that everyone's able to drive and have a piece of that pie.

But the only way to do that is to educate people that space will affect all the other sectors, whether it's agriculture, whether it's, you know, we're already doing space agriculture.

My neighbor has robots milking the cows and he's got.

He's got some satellites basically telling him his land and monitoring it from space.

And I'm in the north, but they're, you know, they.

They talk about space like it's crazy, but at the end of the day, farmers are using it already.

Farmers are basically in the space industry without realizing it.

Well, yeah, and half the people I talked.

I was literally on a phone call the other day, and this guy's like, oh, man.

I'm like, way out in the middle of nowhere and I don't have any service.

Yeah, we'll get Starlink next week.

It's like, what do you think Starlink is?

I'M on Starlink right now.

I'm talking to you on Starlink right now.

I mean I used to have DSL and back in the day when I was doing it, I kept telling the community, look, there's no point investing in fiber optic because Starlink is coming.

Everyone's not believing me.

They're like, no, that's not gonna happen.

That's not gonna happen.

And then sure enough, Starlink is here and then they invested millions of dollars into a system that's doing nothing.

Whereas I have my Starlink.

It works.

I'm not complaining.

Yeah, well, that's it, right?

And it's like we use space technology every day.

You mentioned that right in the beginning.

The microchips from this computer and heck in this microphone even, right?

Like it's all space based technology.

It's all technology that we, you know, invented and perfected back in the 60s, which is pretty crazy when you think about it.

Like a lot of this technology that we're like mind blown about started incepted in the 60s in the space program.

If you asked me like 10 years ago if I thought I was going to be in the space sector, I would have told you no, this is impossible for me as an ordinary.

Like that will never happen in my life.

That's incredible, dude.

That's like, that's just a testament to like what is possible.

And I think as Canadians we forget, you know, I mean we, we're, we're too humble.

We're just too damn humble.

As Canadians we are and I reminded every day and I think we forget that we are capable of a lot.

We are incredible individuals.

We are absolutely capable, we are absolutely capable of becoming leaders in the space race.

Just like United States is just like the rest of the world is, right?

It's just, it's going to take a decision to do so.

It's going to take somebody listening to this show today to say, damn it, I'm doing it.

I'm doing it right.

I'm getting in, I'm getting in on this.

And I hope we do.

I really do.

I hope, I hope people listening to this are inspired to do something for Canadian space sector because we absolutely, absolutely need it.

And we need heroes in that sector 100.

I mean, and I'm more than happy, anyone that wants to reach out and find out more about the sector or just be connected, more than happy to take some time just talk to you about the church of space, you know.

Preach, brother.

No, dude, every time, every time we talk and I know like we've tried to set this up multiple times because you are just, you're everywhere.

You're on the road, you're here, you're there, you're Dubai, you're in NASA.

You're just, you're everywhere all the time.

Which is crazy.

I don't know how you do it maybe.

Are you sure you're not like interdimensional to you or what?

You know, I wish I had a jet.

The amount of driving I do is more than a hundred thousand kilometers a year.

Wow.

Wow, that is incredible.

But yeah, you were literally just in Dubai.

Like you, like, you must be like still on time zone screw up here.

Yeah.

But yeah, I've been also to Japan this year, been to dc, been to Colorado and going back to, to the Middle east before the end of the year and got a few other areas to go.

But you know, it's.

At the end of the day, it's just like I said, Canada Goose had to go to Europe.

So to build Canada, we got to look outwards because there's no support in our own country.

So let's, you know, we're going to do what needs to be done and if not, we'll die try.

Dude, what is it like, have you been to NASA?

I've been to Kennedy and I've been to Johnson Space center and, and I've been to NASA Ames and I've been to NASA Glenn and.

Yeah, a few, A few places.

Anyways, you know, it was crazy being in Houston because I was able to walk into the original Apollo room where they still had like proper cigarette butchers and everything from the Apollo era.

They like kept it as a museum and it's, it's insane.

But I was able to go into the actual room where they have all the, the whole mission control where they're talking to the astronauts and that's, that was cool.

I'm like.

I went.

I saw the Canadian one too and I'm like, wow.

Like, it's so cool how we're interconnected between countries.

Just let's spread the love some more.

I've been to SpaceX as well.

Last year I drove all the way from Houston to Boca Chica.

I thought it was a good time in July, but it was so hot.

Rented my first Tesla and drove all the way down there and I'm like, wow.

I spent more time recharging the thing because of the, the heat, because the air conditioning was using the battery so much.

And I finally got to it.

I'm like, wow, those rockets, that insane.

That's Next level, like the, the rockets are going to be as big as the Statue of Liberty.

The rockets.

And I also got to participate in a VIP launch with Lockheed Martin at NASA.

Wow.

Back in 2022 when they launched a modern rocket that's taking our astronauts around the moon.

The Artemis sls, which is built by wonderful people across the whole sector.

And if you think about it like I.

That was my first big rocket except exposure.

I saw the, the Falcon 9, but I, when I saw that it was 2am and the sky lit up like a nuclear bomb.

It was absolutely insane.

It went from dark to like broad daylight.

Oh my God.

That must been just like.

I can, just like my, like blood is pumping, man.

I can't imagine.

There's certain things, there's certain things in life that just light you up and I can't imagine what that, like the shakes and shivers you must have felt in that moment.

It must have just been incredible.

You know, it was a, it was an incredible time because I was at a very low point in my life at that point.

That was right after my dad died, like not even a few months.

And I was so busy like taking care of the family and the paperwork and all that stuff that I was like, I, I was lost.

I didn't know what I was, where I was at.

And, and when you're lost, there's too many people that are not there to help you.

They're just like, they get over it kind of thing.

But they don't realize the amount of.

Goes on in the background.

And you know, I even had chickens to take care of.

But nevertheless.

So that was like, wow, I can't give up.

I gotta keep going because I need to show this to the next generation.

So that was one of those moments where I'm like, I gotta keep going.

I'm not quitting.

I'm still standing.

Yes, yes.

I can't imagine.

I hope, I hope that at some point in my life I get to watch a launch.

I think that'd be pretty incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I gotta put it on my rocketry.

In Canada, in the Maritime.

So maybe you'll see a rocket there.

That would be, that would be pretty incredible.

Not to mention the Maritimes.

It's just great to visit anyway.

There you go.

It's getting more expensive though.

But you know, if ever you want to go see a SpaceX launch, let me know.

Absolutely.

No, dude, I appreciate this connection.

Huge.

Like I said, the Canadian space world, I know it's small and, and not only is it small, like you mentioned it's really hard to get people to talk to you.

It's very tight lipped.

Yeah.

And most people, a lot of them are engineers, so they don't really.

Look, I'm a college dropout, just to let you know.

Like, I studied computer engineer, but I dropped out of college.

It was not my thing.

20% of people with ADHD make it through college because of the executive function and stuff like that.

And you know, at the end of the day, like, you could be a welder that just went through school and whatnot, and you want to be part of the space sector.

It's a mind frame.

It's really about shaping yourself to be around that industry.

There's nothing stopping you.

You don't need to have like 20 diplomas or 10 years behind your belt because a lot of people that get out there, they don't have any people skills and they don't know how to approach people, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Yes, it's.

And that's okay.

Like, that's in all, you know, engineers of all types.

I work in the oil and gas sector, man, I've met a lot of engineers under a lot of them.

But you know what?

They get anxious.

They get anxious just like the rest of us, right?

I totally, totally.

Get in.

A podcast is another thing too, that if you're not really prepared for it, it can definitely feel like an anxious moment.

It's like at this point, I've done almost 300 of them.

My fear gone.

But I remember the beginning and how scary it was.

Even me talking to my wall in my basement at the time, right?

I would feel scared talking to my wall too.

I'd be asking myself, do I have something wrong?

Oh, man.

And I, I go back to that and episode three almost never came out.

Episode three was just about the end of the business development podcast.

Like, what the hell am I doing?

But thank God I kept going.

It turned out to be a pretty.

Good idea, you know, you know, if I could send a message out there.

It's like love each other and work together and make stuff happen and listen to people when they're going through a hard time, be there for them because there's not enough people to listen.

People rather just make up and assume that everything is real when they don't actually take the time and talk to people and see their size and, you know, like the people that get uncomfortable when people are going through rough things and they make it about themselves and it's not necessarily about them.

They're.

People need people to reach out.

Mental health's so important, whatever industry you're in.

So, I mean, like, I've been through some, but, you know, at the end of the day, I'm glad I had some very close friend and family to support me, because I wouldn't be here today otherwise.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm happy you are.

I'm happy you're out there, dude.

Keep with us.

You're here too, doing great work.

You know.

Yeah, I agree completely.

And I think it's really easy to.

Because people see this.

People see this.

This is my work face.

This is me having fun.

This is me working.

This is life.

Right?

But this isn't life.

This is work.

And, you know, I love the podcast.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a lot of work.

I really enjoy this.

But at the same time, this is still work.

There's still an entire life happening behind the scenes right now.

People don't see that.

And people don't see that.

And they don't see that with any successful CEO, entrepreneur, founder.

You know, people get Elon Musk.

And don't get me wrong, I'm sure Elon Musk is fine.

But what I'm getting at here, we see Elon Musk and the crazy, amazing things, but I bet you Elon Musk has some personal challeng.

Guaranteed.

Yeah.

Think about it this way.

Like, the.

The higher you are, the lonelier it is, because people approach you only for your merit or your money.

They don't actually talk to you on a personal level.

Yeah.

And you've been burned so many times that you have a hard time letting people in.

You're afraid to trust anyone because you know deep down, they're there for a motive.

They're not there to talk to you because, hey, you're a human.

And checking in on you, they're just there to be like, look, I'm there to talk to you because I want something.

You know, like, you see Elon down the street, you'll be like, holy, it's Elon.

You see a celebrity, I don't know, Taylor Swift or whatever, you're like, holy, it's Taylor Swift.

You're not gonna be like, oh, cool.

Like, she's a cool human.

Like, I know some people from Hollywood, and I mean, like, that's why I talk to them as they are.

I don't want them to be like, I don't want to be giggity.

They are human beings first.

And people have a hard time distinguishing that because they only see what you put out there.

And when you put Your face out there towards marketing and stuff like that, you become a target because people think that's your life.

You know, when I first started, I was heavy into very loud marketing and stuff like that.

People thought I was one of the largest space companies in Canada, that I had more than 50 employees.

Meanwhile, it was little me, you know?

Yeah.

So, I mean, it's, it's, it's hard and I understand how scary it can be, but we gotta persevere.

And the key to success is determination.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and it's just, honestly, it's just sticking in it.

It really is.

Like, so much of success is right place, right time, and we don't dictate what right place and right time is.

We just have to be there when right place, right time shows up.

Right.

Like, you gotta take those failures and see the situation in them and adapt and keep going.

Yeah.

I have so many people that, that think that, like, that people can predict success.

People can predict when things are going to blow up.

And I've talked to enough entrepreneurs at this point to say none of us knew when it was coming.

All that happened was we were in the right place to say yes at the right time.

And we don't get to.

We don't.

We can't see the future.

I don't care how many forecasting models you do, you're never going to be able to get it 100% right.

And I think nine times out of 10, you're going to be surprised by what happens.

The thing that actually comes your way and blows up and makes it amazing for you, you won't have seen it coming.

And that's been my experience and many.

No overnight success.

Yeah, there's a lot of black swans out there, you know.

Yeah.

So, I mean, at the end of the day, there's no overnight success.

People underestimate and then they think you made it overnight and then everyone wants to be your friend after that.

So, I mean, you just gotta keep holding on and fight further and never giving up, because that's the only way you can go and, you know.

Hakuna matata.

Hakuna matata.

Jason, take us into Stardust, man.

Talk to me.

What is it?

What do you do?

And what are, what are the services you guys are currently providing?

Yeah, so.

So basically what we're focused on is creating talent pipelines for aerospace and space and defense companies through K to 12, all the way to college, university, and adults.

So to educate them on the space sector and these other sectors on how they can become part of It So we go where people don't want to go.

We go to the remote communities, whether it's the Arctic or the subarctic or like you know, in the desert if we need to.

And we, we basically when it comes to K to 12, we're there to inspire.

We're not there to say hey, you got to work this and whatnot.

We don't want to force it down kids show.

But we want them to understand that space is an opportunity for any sector.

You want, you want to be a doctor, you can be a space doctor down the line or you can learn about the space sector.

And then we, we then after that we focus on college and university because there's so many companies out there looking for people.

But the people don't know where to look.

They just think, hey, this is my market and that's it.

Or they'll.

So many people went to study in college at the same time as me and they went elsewhere because they didn't know where to go.

They just have degrees, but they're not even working their degrees.

They automatically went to mining because a lot of money.

And that's what my family told me to do do.

Right?

Yeah.

Essentially we, we make sure that they know who's out there in the new space sector.

And we also work with banks or lawyers and whatnot for them to learn about the space economy because space is more than that, that you need the banks to understand in order to invest or finance and stuff like that.

So we're not having a conversation.

We're like, what's space?

I don't know, nothing.

Space is not real.

At a high level person at government, you know, so, so that's what we've been working on called the Stardust Odyssey.

And then we also have our 23,000 square feet facility where we focus on space food development and isolation training for mental health.

And then as I mentioned earlier, our Serenity project focus on mental health and really creating that bridge for training for astronauts so that they can feel like they are not lost in space and that there's people connected with them and their loved ones when they're there.

And then we have a few other cool creative projects.

But I mean like it doesn't all happen overnight.

We are going to share more in the upcoming months.

You know, we keep working even if we're not live.

We're doing some stuff in the background that they'll know eventually there's going to be some great space events going on and.

But again new space and new space accessories because we're here to bring space to everyone and that's our main focus.

It doesn't matter where you are.

That's amazing, dude.

I'm amazing.

First off, that's incredible too.

I know we have entrepreneurs listening right now who are like, we want to support the Canadian space space industry, but we don't know where to start.

Can they reach out to you to start us to kind of start that process?

100%.

And we, we are more than happy to work with companies on helping them, guide them in towards the space sector in order that they are able to have their PI, their framework to be part of the new space economy.

So if they want to be part of it, however small or bigger role, we can help them out with that.

That's what we do.

And some of our colleagues have been working the sector from warn of 40 years and are tired of with the old space and in with the new, you know.

So we're here to support you anytime.

And again, please feel free to reach out to my private email or website or anything like that.

More than happy, you can also reach out on LinkedIn or Instagram.

We're there for you if you want, you have questions or anything.

Even if you would just want to say hello and have a coffee.

Amazing, amazing.

And what's the best way for them to get a hold of you?

Is it through LinkedIn?

LinkedIn's where I'm most active.

I monitor my LinkedIn more than I monitor my email to be honest, because I get so many emails are a lot of spam and stuff like that.

Whereas LinkedIn is the easiest.

Me too.

Dude.

I just have one final question for you because I'm curious.

You've done how many zero G flights?

What, what are they called again?

So parabolic flights.

So like the Vomit comet they call it Other places.

I've done four of them and I'm working on doing a fifth one.

Very soon that, that's more details are going to come up but it's going to be a very fun one in, in the US and essentially you go up, you build some kinetic energy, you go up and then they basically stop the engine and you.

All that kinetic energy that was built up just basically releases and you're just free floating for 20 seconds at a time.

You can do backflips, you can, you, you wait.

Nothing, you could be upside down.

Nothing's going to your head because everything's just floating, right?

Yeah.

That's why you don't want to drink Pepsi or alcohol and it's necessarily up there.

Because everything's floating in your stomach.

Yeah.

And then I also got the opportunity to do Martian and lunar gravity at different angles.

So I was able to see how it would feel to balance.

Don't get me wrong, the plane was small, but I was able to walk around and really enjoy it.

And it's an out of this world experience.

And I want more people to feel like that because then they'll be like, look, if I did that, I can go to space.

So there's great opportunities out there to do that and hopefully we can make it more accessible to people in Canada.

That's amazing.

And the question I had was, like, what does that feel like?

What is floating feel like it.

Does it have a feeling?

It's an addictive feeling.

It's, you know, when you're in the pool, but without the pressure.

So, you know, you try to dive automatically.

Your response to you trying to like swim around, but you can't because you have nothing to push you around.

So you have no choice to push on things because you literally, if I would take, take a feather and a full size cow, you would basically because I took a small little cow into a zero g last time and a little feather and the cow and the feather would weight the same thing.

It doesn't matter.

It's the same way.

So I could, I, I could take like £5,000 and lift it with my arm like this.

Pretty much same thing as a feather.

It's insane.

Like, you know you want to, you want the best diet going zero G, you're gonna lose all that weight.

That is incredible, man.

You are incredible.

Thank you for the incredible, awesome work you guys are doing on my behalf of Canada.

I hope that things continue to just go up and up for you at Stardust.

And thanks for taking the time with me today.

Thank you so much.

Nasibukuchi Miguel.

Until next time, this has been episode 280 of the Business development podcast and we will catch you on the flip side.

This has been the business development podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales in business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

For more, we invite you to the website at WWW dot.

See you next time on the business development Podcast.