Build Freedom Today with Ben Spangl

Welcome to episode 256 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today we're joined once again by the incredible Ben Spangle, entrepreneur, performance coach and host of the Pursuit Podcast.

Ben's back to drop some serious mindset wisdom and help us rethink how we balance growth, fulfillment and freedom as business leaders.

This one goes deep.

Stick with us.

You won't want to miss this episode.

The great Mark Cuban once said, business happens over years and years.

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.

And we couldn't agree more.

This is the business of Development Podcast, based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business business development reps. You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development, CapitalBD CA.

Let's do it.

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to episode 256 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today I am absolutely thrilled to welcome back Ben Spangle as an entrepreneur, mindset and performance coach, speaker and host of the top 1% ranked the pursuit Podcast.

Ben has dedicated his career to helping entrepreneurs, salespeople and executives unlock their full potential.

Ben's journey from financial struggles to leading multiple seven figure agencies of over 80 brokers is nothing short of inspiring.

He has built a life of abundance, fulfillment and success by mastering the power of mindset.

In this episode, we're going to dive deep into the world of coaching, podcasting and cultivating a powerful mindset, Ben is going to reveal secrets to unlock our mind's potential and create the lives we've always dreamed of.

Whether you're starving for more success in your career, looking to elevate your podcasting game, or seeking the mindset shift that will lead to greater happiness and fulfillment, Ben has the wisdom and strategies to inspire and motivate us to take the next steps forward.

Let's get ready to explore the limitless possibilities.

It's an absolute honor to have you back, dude.

Kelly, so good to be here, man.

Thanks for the introduction.

I hope what we talk about today, I hope I say something good after that introduction.

You know, I look back when we have this conversation.

We've had, we're friends and we've had a lot of conversations since our last show, which is where we really got to meet each other, which is super cool.

But we did that show and it was a new year show.

It was a New Year's 2024 show, dude, and you, like, nailed it.

It was everything we needed to hear.

Because whenever we're heading into a new year, we're always struggling with, like, how can we do better than the last year?

Right?

We're always trying to do a little bit better, but my gosh, man, trying to stay motivated, trying to stay excited, especially as an entrepreneur, it's such a roller coaster.

It's sometimes hard to keep that positive mindset when it feels like the world is burning around you and yet the next second something amazing could happen.

And then you're living on cloud nine.

But it's like, how do you, you know, and one of the things me and you have talked about with me and, and I've said, like, how do I live a more balanced life?

How, how can I get off the roller coaster?

Right?

And just, and, and you've given me lots of tips regarding it, but, man, it's, it's, it's hard, it's really challenging sometimes to keep that, like, to keep that, that straight and narrow.

Yeah, I, I, I think it, it totally is, it is hard.

And you know, especially in business, right?

We're building these businesses, we're building these companies, we're growing.

We'.

Most people that are building their businesses are not saying, you know, I just like to make a little bit of money, have a small, little company.

I mean, that's not most of us, right?

Most of us are wanting to build something significant, something that's got impact, something that's making a difference.

And yes, something that's also very financially rewarding or perhaps we've done that.

Right?

And, and you know, that comes at a cost.

That comes at a price.

There's a price for everything, Right?

Yeah.

So I think in the space today, as entrepreneurs, as people running companies, building companies and just leaders as a whole, right?

Even if they don't own the business, but they're a leader in the organization, the demands on our time are incredibly high.

But we're living in an era where there was always a time where demands as a leader were high, but now we've got demands in a way, if we're not careful 24, 7, because we've got these cell phones that you can be answering email any time of day, you can be answering text.

I'm creating this new social, or I'm approving the social with the team or whatever it might be.

And so we can literally, if we're not careful, if we're not intentional if we're not making sure that I'm designing my life today, not just my life for the future, but my life today, we can become over, consumed by it, and we can reach the place that none of us ever want to get to, where we are too burned out.

And we lose that drive, we lose that passion.

We become a little more apathetic.

And I experienced it in my own life.

I've shared with you about that before.

As I coach people and other entrepreneurs, I see it happen.

I see the warning signs of it, too.

So it's something we really want to pay attention to, is making sure we're in control of our day as much as we can be, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I know, like, over this last year, even since me and you talked last, I've nearly hit that wall and then had to back it off and nearly hit that wall.

But, dude, it's been multiple times where it's like, okay, like, I am doing too much.

But, you know, I. I find, like, for me, I really do live there.

I almost live at that too much, and I. I find a way to, like, to just decompress and take it back.

And then I do find myself constantly riding the limiter.

It's like I'm riding the red line, right?

Like, and I don't know, Like, I don't know whether that's just me or that's, like, entrepreneurs in general.

I'm fairly consistently.

I know where my limit is, and I don't take it that far, but I've hit.

I've had multiple times this year, dude, where I was like, oh, my gosh.

Like, I don't know.

I don't know if, like, the way I'm doing it is right or not.

And I know.

I've talked to so many entrepreneurs about balance, dude.

Like, you know, especially in the last year, it seems to come up in, like, every single entrepreneurial episode where we chat about, you know, like, especially with the ones who have found immense success.

One of the questions I always ask them was, did you eventually find peace?

Did you, like, was it what you wanted it to be?

And the answer a lot of the time I get is, yes, they are living peacefully now.

Like, now that they've achieved what they wanted to achieve, it's like, at a certain level, then maybe they get to back off a bit.

Maybe they get to just, like, enjoy the life that they've built around them.

But almost all of them have paid a pretty hefty price to get there.

Like, yeah, you know?

Yeah.

Oh, no.

You know, for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think it's like there's.

There's different ways to success.

You know, one of the things, like I'm.

I'm in the online space for a lot of the coaching I do.

Right.

And as I watch that and witness it, one of the things about online marketers is.

And it makes sense why they would sell this, but this is the way.

This is the path.

So as you're buying a lot of these programs, all this stuff, the way it's presented is that this is the way.

When the truth is there is no absolute truth of this is the way.

Right.

There's so many different ways, but one of the predominant paths, one of the cultural beliefs in the business world is that I'm going to have to give up a lot for a long time to get where I want to go.

Now, a lot of people experience that, that.

That's what they do.

They gave up a lot.

They pay a massive price, and then eventually they reach, you know, perhaps the financial freedom, perhaps the wealth, perhaps they can scale back their time in the business.

And for some, they would say it is worth it.

And for others, they'd say, I lost my family.

Yeah.

And I've seen both.

I've had both of them come on and say it was horrible, it wasn't worth it.

And I've had others say, I live an incredible life now.

Totally.

Right.

And it is so.

But that's an interesting thing too, right?

It's a really interesting thing.

So that some could go through that and say, man, it wasn't worth it.

Right.

It cost me too much.

Others could go through and say it was absolutely worth it.

One of my paradigm shifts that I've created in my world and is.

And I like to help people with, is that how do we start living the life we want to live today?

Now, that may not mean that all of a sudden I could go take, you know, the next two months off and expect my business to grow.

You may not be at that stage yet, or it may not mean that I'm going to go buy that, you know, home that I want right today.

But there's other things inside of the life that we're wanting to live that if we neglect them too long, we begin to become maybe even unconsciously or unknowingly resentful of how we're living.

And I witnessed this in a lot of performers.

Yeah, man.

You know what?

I.

One of the challenges that I actually face is that the things that used to bring me joy, I no longer feel compelled to do them or driven to do them.

Like, the.

The.

The harder that I focus in on one thing, I think my challenge is, is that I get so caught up in.

In the work, in the grind, in the.

In the achievement that I can almost backburner everything else.

And the scary thing about that is, for me, Ben, is that I hit a point where I'm like, it feels like a waste of time to do the things that I find, like, a lot of joy in, which is really weird.

And I know there's a lot of people listening right now, like, what are you talking about, Kelly?

Like, how could things.

You find joy and feel like a waste of time, but it's true, because you can end up on this path where you're like, I need to do a little bit more.

I need to go a little bit further.

I need to grow a little bit more this week, or, I need to book another meeting, or it's like one more, one more, one more, one more.

And then you get to a point where it's like, you don't have time but to chase that one more, like the.

Everything starts to get devoted to the next thing.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

I. I've lived that.

I. I do understand that one, too.

I was at a conference two weeks ago with Brennan Burchard, and the day before, they did a special event with Ed Mylett.

I was not at that one, but Brennan was sharing it.

And Ed, you know, you might know of him, some.

Some people listening may, some not, but the guy's.

He's probably worth 4 or 500 million, you know, been incredibly successful, is incredibly successful.

He's in his early 50s or mid-50s.

And his whole message at the conference Brennan was sharing, he said, you know, listening to Ed talk yesterday, he said, I've done all this.

I got the jets, I got the wealth, I got, you know, all this stuff.

And he said, but, you know, what I never really did was I never allowed myself to have fun.

And so here he is in his mid-50s now, just starting to recognize that if I could go back and do it again, I would have had more fun.

I would have found those joys.

So you're not asking, but if I was talking to you about this, I would say, you know, we need to examine that thought process, because that's what it is.

It's a belief.

So it says, well, I'm taking that time.

I'm not going to go.

Which is a common entrepreneurial block, right?

I'm not going to go.

Take time away from the business to Go do something I really do love doing because I could put that time into the business.

If I was going to go golfing, let's say I'm going to go do X, go to play basketball with the guys, whatever.

Rather than do that, I'll make some more calls, I'll do some more of this.

I could do an extra meeting xxx and that way I'm growing the business.

But here's the question.

Growing the business, then to do that, that's fine.

But for what purpose?

What is the purpose that I'm doing all this work?

To grow the business.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so funny because, you know, I mean, I think about this question a lot.

And you know, the whole point when I started capital was essentially to.

To buy myself freedom of time to buy myself time and money to do the things I wanted to do.

And the irony to the whole thing is I do less of those things now than I did before I was an entrepreneur.

Yeah.

And it's.

And it's a little bit crazy when you think about it.

There's a lot of freedom to being an employee, like to not feeling like it's all riding on you.

Like, you know, I mean, I sometimes I envy it and sometimes I don't miss it at all.

Yeah, totally.

It's a funny paradigm mix, right?

Because you're absolutely right.

Like, the funny thing was, is that I think a lot of business owners think, oh, I'm going to start my own business and I'll be able to work my own hours and do my own thing.

Right.

But what you quickly realize is it takes a lot more hours than you think to accomplish the goals you want to do, the growth you want your company to do.

And I'm not saying this is everybody.

I'm sure there's somebody who's figured out how to do it right.

But I think most of us end up working harder and longer and more devoted and less time with our families, less time with doing the things we love doing the things we used to enjoy to build the business.

Because building a business has taken more effort than you originally thought it would.

Yeah, there is an element to that.

There's no doubt.

Like, and it obviously depends on the nature of the business and all that stuff.

There's various factors.

There's also, I think, a paradigm shift that's helpful that it.

The illusion is, is that if I do take time for the things that I enjoy, that my business will be neglected.

So this is the thought process.

Now, we could make an argument for it and we could Make a case.

Well, yeah, if I'm not making that extra appointment than X.

Right.

I would argue the other way today though.

And I would argue is that the longer we neglect those things that do bring us joy, and there's elements of your business that hopefully bring joy too.

Right.

But the longer we neglect that stuff, the less effective we become.

Because it's not just, you're not a machine.

And if you were a machine, that'd be fine.

Where I could just input, do, do doot.

Do this task, do more of this task.

Do more of the task.

But we're not machines and you know, by nature would be more emotional creatures that happen to have stumbled into an intellect.

Right.

If you look at the animal kingdom, it's very reactionary, it's very boom.

React to an emotion.

Right.

And humans are a form of animal.

We don't.

We're a highly evolved one.

But we develop the intellect so we can think.

But logically we say, well, I'm not going to take that time because that takes away from the business.

But emotionally we begin to become depleted.

And if we deplete it too long, then, well, not even too long.

But our productivity based on the hours we're putting in, begins to diminish.

So I've found at this stage of my life that, you know, into my second business where I will never go working what I once worked in my previous one, I'll never do it.

I don't have any desire to.

And this business is still growing.

It's, you know, and way quicker than I grew my first one.

Obviously, I've got better skills, better understanding, better mindset, all that stuff.

Right?

Yeah.

But I'm also living my life with a lot more today of how do I experience joy now?

And here's what I'm finding.

What I'm finding is, is that the more I allow space for that, the more effective and creative I become in the work that I do do.

So it's a paradigm shift.

And honestly, it's one of those ones that you have to experience it in order because we could talk about it.

But until somebody experience, we don't, we may not believe it.

Right.

Yeah.

And I think, like, you know, I'm not sure I would believe it if we weren't friends and I didn't follow you on social.

But I know, I know that you spend a lot of time enjoying your life, going to seminars you want to check out, going to events you want to check out, going on trips with your family, spending great time, quality time with, with your Wife and kids.

Like, I think, you know, I look at you and I, I think, oh my gosh, I sure hope one day I'm like Ben Spangle.

I really do.

Because I, I, I life.

And I'm like, this is amazing.

Like, and you do that and you're successful and you're growing consistently and you're achieving so much, but it seems like you have managed to, to achieve and have freedom.

And I think that there's a lot of entrepreneurs who are like, how do you do that?

Yeah, well, and it's, it's a great question, right?

So it's like, for me, it was, I'm not calling it right or wrong way, but doing it a way for a period of time where I was under the illusion.

And you brought it up earlier, Kelly, but you brought it up.

Like, when I got into business, I thought I had this freedom.

And what I learned was in the early stages of my first business, I didn't have freedom.

I had flexibility.

Two very different things.

Right side flexibility.

And so I had my first several years of struggle.

And my first business was an insurance business.

As you know, I was building that.

And literally my first three years were just failure, failure, failure.

But I was also, I was learning how to be an entrepreneur.

And I was learning that the downside, the dark side of flexibility and, or freedom, if you want to call it, when you're not ready for that.

Right?

Which I was so young and naive.

Then I went to the Pendulum.

The other way of really, I can look at it today and say I did give up a lot of freedom, although, you know, maybe I could have done it differently.

There was a period where I did.

Then I got to a period where I was like, man, are we allowed to swear on this show?

Is that okay?

Not okay, go for it.

I'll just say, F this I got to appear where I was like, man, f this, I'm not going to do this anymore.

And kind of swung it to a point where I was so withdrawn and so apathetic that I thought, I don't want to live like that anymore.

And so then I.

So it took me, you know, I had to get to extremes.

And I'm not saying people have to do that because we could bypass that if we try it.

I was not even willing to entertain the idea that I could go and do more of the things that I enjoyed and had fun with and my business would actually grow from it.

It was so counter intuitive, countercultural, defied logic.

But what I'm inviting anyone listening to do is Just try and you don't need to go too extreme.

But if you're at that point where maybe I'm neglecting some of those other things that I really do enjoy doing, can you carve out some time to do it?

I was with an entrepreneur, runs a good company and insurance business out in Montreal.

Guy's a great guy.

He's got, you know, they're doing probably close to a couple million a year in it.

Pretty good for a, you know, life insurance business.

Yeah.

And.

And.

And he works lots, like many do.

Right.

And so we're having a coaching call and we're talking everything, and.

And I said, just tell me about your dream, like, what you love.

And he starts describing his life.

I said, what's your ideal day?

You know, how would you love to have your day?

And he tells me he still wants to keep working.

He's not like, want to retire or anything.

And he goes, you know what I'd love to do, though?

He's like, I love Old Montreal and I'd love just to go for a walk, you know, once or twice a week.

And I said, okay, what's stopping you from going for once or twice a week for a walk right now?

And it was this idea is that, well, I could be doing something else.

Yeah.

And so my challenge to him was, go for the frigging walks, dude.

Go enjoy it.

So here's a thought process that helps.

I think, you know, everyone listening is a different age.

But no matter what your age, whether you're in your 30s or in your 40s, your 50s, your 60s, your 70s, here's the matter of fact reality.

Every single one of us is going to die at some point.

We have no idea when.

We all hope to live a long life.

Hopefully we live into our 80s or 90s, maybe even into the hundreds.

I hope to live into my hundreds, you know, hopefully.

But we also know the fragility of life and that that can be taken away in an instant.

Of course.

Yeah.

So one reflection point that I find is very valuable.

Let's say I found out I had 10 years left today.

Let's just say I was able, somehow able to figure that out.

I had 10 years.

How would I want to be living my life?

What would I want to be doing with my time?

How would I be running my business?

Because it's not like I just walk away from my business.

It's part of my mission.

It's part of my purpose.

I feel called to it.

Yeah, right.

And if I found out I had 10 years left, to live.

And I said I'd be living this way, but this is how I'm living today.

And these two are not really aligned.

That's probably worth some investigation.

Yeah, it's probably worth some investigation.

Right.

Because we just don't know.

We just don't know.

So could I incorporate maybe I'm not ready to do a wholesale change, but could I slowly start to incorporate a little bit of this and then notice, pay attention to, wow, my business is still growing.

Interesting.

Yeah.

One of the.

One of the questions that I have when I hear this, and I can already hear, like, entrepreneurs literally asking this, and they say, ben, I feel like I don't have the time.

Like, I don't have time as it is right now to do the things I need to do with my business.

Now, one could argue that they're probably working too hard as it is.

Like, that's possible.

Yeah.

Right.

But the argument, as far as they're concerned, is I'm putting in the amount of effort it takes to grow.

I guess my question to you is, how do you find out how much effort it actually takes to grow?

Because I think, like you said, what it is, it's a disconnect between what it really takes.

Right.

And what you think it takes.

So I think, again, changing even one distinction, if we could change the word effort to perhaps, you know, if we look at effort and then we look at productivity and effectiveness.

Often productivity and effectiveness requires effort.

But there are many people that put in many hours of effort, but their productivity and effectiveness is limited.

Right.

So if we can look at ways, okay, how might I be able to increase my productivity and effectiveness?

And here's the best example.

And I promise you, you've done this.

Everybody listening has done it.

You've got a vacation coming up.

You're going to be gone for a week, two weeks, whatever.

And you know, you've got a ton of shit to get done.

Yeah.

And you've only got four days to do it before the vacation comes up.

And have you not reached that state where you are just, like, crushing the to do list?

Have you experienced this before?

Something like it.

Not only crushing the to do list, but feeling immensely stressed out.

Okay, well, hopefully get you out of that.

Yeah.

Bring out two.

How the heck do I do, like, the handful of things that I can't do no matter how much I try to get them done ahead of time?

There are things that have to happen real time, too.

And figuring out how the heck do I get these things done real time without robbing from My family on vacation.

Right.

Okay, so we got some work to do there.

Let's think about that.

Right.

But we also know that I'm able to get a lot more done when that sense of urgency I have not yet accessed.

How do I get my vacation urgency to my day to day?

I've not quite figured that out yet, but I have definitely got to a point where I've become significantly more productive and effective.

So the second thing too is that if I'm already feeling maxed out.

One of the things we need to look at, there's a formula.

D, A D, the dad formula.

Okay.

Have I talked about this before?

I think briefly in the last show.

Okay, we did.

Okay, cool.

So the first thing is delete.

What can I delete?

Because sometimes we don't stop.

We're just so busy being busy.

We're building the business, we're doing the stuff, we're making the calls.

And especially if we're running, you know, it's us.

Right.

For the most part.

Right.

I'm doing the prospect, I'm doing the sales call, I'm doing the back end side, I'm doing all this stuff.

Sometimes we need to stop and take a look at what can I actually delete.

Is there any, and I'm not saying there is, but it's worth looking at.

Is there something that I'm doing that actually doesn't need to be done or doesn't really move the needle?

The second thing, the A.

So the dad is automate.

What am I doing that could be automated?

And again, I'm not saying there always is, but often there is.

Even if it's something small and if it's that small task that you're doing all the time, but now it's automated even a little bit better.

It frees up a bit of your time.

More importantly, it frees up some of your energy because your level of effectiveness is going to be based on the level of energy you can bring to the given task.

And, and the last one's delegate.

And this is a hard one for business people.

We don't want to delegate because they're not going to do it as good as me.

Yeah, right.

But it's hard to scale and it's hard to really grow if we can't give up the reins a little bit.

Yeah, right.

We don't get to multi millions by trying to do it all ourselves.

Or if we do, we're going to friggin hurt ourselves in the process.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So those are a couple ideas around that anyways, Right?

Yeah, yeah, it, it is good, I think.

Yeah.

I think delegation, like you said, that's the hard one for all of us.

Like we all struggle with that and it's for that very reason.

It's like you think that you grew your business because it was you and you did the work and you put it.

And maybe it was.

But you're right, it's like the, at some point you're not going to have the time to keep it up at the exact same level as you did before.

Especially if you're taking on new projects.

Yeah, you're growing, Right.

At some point you have to find ways.

But like, you know, what if they are single person companies, you know, like how do they manage that if they don't necessarily have someone to delegate to?

Like what are, what are the solutions that you suggest?

Well, there's different stages though.

Here's the thing, right?

If I say like I'm a single person company, I've got zero revenue and I've, you know, I've, I don't have any credit that I'm willing to use to score this business.

So that's a stage, right, where my options are pretty limited.

Yeah, right.

They're definitely pretty limited.

Another stage though is I'm a single person company.

Maybe one, one person, two person, whatever.

But I've got some revenue coming in, right.

It may not be where I want it to be yet, but I have revenue coming in.

It's.

I'm, I'm a big fan and I understand not every single business can use this, but most can of virtual assistants.

You know, I, I use the one I work with, she's from the Philippines and there's many places you can get them.

But as you're probably well aware, but I mean we can get people that can do a lot of stuff for a fraction of the cost of what, you know, you and I live in Canada, but it'd be the same in the States.

Probably similar in Europe too.

I don't know.

But a fraction of the cost.

I'm a big fan of that.

As quick as possible.

And if you say, well I can't, I can't have somebody full time.

You don't need somebody full time.

Get a part time va.

Some of them will even pick up contract work as needed.

So here's a good formula.

Whatever your business is, you're selling some product or service, that's the end product or service that's being sold.

That's what generates revenue.

You.

Right.

So if you think of, okay, if I'm going to pay someone X an hour.

Let's say you could pay somebody, you know, whatever you pay them, 5 bucks an hour, 10 bucks an hour, whatever you pay.

Right.

I mean, some.

They might be able to do less.

I don't know if I'm going to pay someone for that time to do this task that I'm doing right now.

Right.

Like, can you think of a task that you do right now that you probably don't need to do, you could have someone else do?

Yeah, probably.

Like managing my social media.

Managing your social.

Okay, so, so that could be an option.

And when you say managing, is it more kind of like posting and you know.

Yeah, yeah, like handling the posts.

Like, obviously, you know, if you run a podcast, there's lots of social media going out at any given time.

Right, sure.

So yeah, like clip creation, all sorts of stuff.

So yeah, you name it.

Beautiful.

Okay, great.

So this is a great example of a va, Right.

How many hours are you okay if I ask you this stuff?

Yeah, absolutely.

How many hours a week do you think you use on that?

Oh, goodness, that's a really good question.

I'm not sure that I've ever calculated it, but yeah, like, you know me, I'm on, I'm on my socials quite a bit.

I would say I'm probably dedicating at least four to five hours a week to social.

Perfect.

Four to five hours a week.

So let's say you had someone that could take the show.

They could.

And there's lots of software that does this too now.

But you probably use some of it.

They could then go clip it up for you.

Right.

And maybe it's not, you know, it's not Kelly perfection yet.

Maybe.

Right.

But it's 80% or 70% as good.

Sure.

I would argue though that sometimes the people you can hire are better than you at this stuff.

Yes, sometimes they are.

Right, right.

So anyways, but let's say it was 75.

80% is good.

And let's say it's five hours a week.

And if we did rough math, let's say you even paid them 10 bucks an hour, which, you know, I mean, some bas are like three to five men.

Ten bucks an hour, that'd be $50 a week for five hours of your time that you freed up.

Right.

So you'd have to spend $50.

Now, I think over time you would find someone that would.

Could do a better job than you.

You.

But even if they did an identical job or even not quite as good, but they freed you up with five hours each week.

Four or five hours.

What would then become possible for you with the extra four or five hours?

Well, you could immediately say, I could make more calls.

Yeah.

So, I mean, just from a pure business perspective, if we forget the joy part, the conversation we just had, which I don't want to forget, but just purely from a business, if I freed up those five hours and let's say you made prospecting calls just two of those five hours, how much potential revenue could be generated in that time versus the time you're spending on the social?

Yeah.

Like you're making the argument that there's better use cases for your time.

Well, guaranteed, I guarantee you.

And not only is there better use cases, in order for us to create the real freedom we want, we have to do this.

Because it's not just.

It's not just from the business perspective in terms of grow the business, grow the revenue, make the money.

Yes, but you said, and I think almost every entrepreneur that starts their business would say the same thing.

I got in my business because I wanted to create freedom.

And then we get into business and we fall into these traps that the very business we start for freedom has become in some ways, our own prison.

Yeah.

Well, it's funny because you started this conversation when we talked about entrepreneurship and we talked about how life is very different now for an entrepreneur, specifically that we have to be available.

Like, it feels like available all the time.

Right?

It feels like we do.

Yeah.

When the cell phone came out, it was like.

And, you know, let's not even talk about social.

When the cell phone came out now we were able to be reached off hours, off work hours.

Right.

And then if you get into the socials aspect of it now, the world that, like, me and you live in, because we're both coaches, we both host podcasts, we both.

We're both have to put stuff out there right now, the socials might as well be another job on top of the job you already have.

And then let's add on podcasting, which me and you both do.

Add podcasting onto that and another job.

Right.

So an entrepreneur now is no longer just an entrepreneur doing the business that they set out to do.

They have to be a forward face, a public face.

Maybe they have a show, maybe they're a thought leader.

Oh.

And on top of that, maybe they're trying to build their own personal brand on social, because now that's part of the requirements of being an entrepreneur at a certain level.

So it went from one responsibility, one job, to three jobs.

And we're all running that rat race.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm, I.

One of the concepts I love is just the phrase by design.

Right.

So we're working on creating our life by design.

We become more intentional.

How do I want to be living my days today?

Right, there's how do I want to live my days when I've got the millions, when I've got.

Right, we've got that.

But then there's also the business by design.

And thinking about how do I want to be, how do I want to be running my business?

How would my ideal business be running today?

And you might say ideally.

Well, ideally we've got whatever.

We've got 50 salespeople and we've got this and all.

And that may be the bigger term vision.

Right.

Or they're at 50 and they want to go to 500 and that may be the bigger term.

But how do we begin living my, at least some of my ideal business stuff today?

And this did model I think is really important to look at because it's, it's probably less money than you think it is.

But they freed up energy and time.

Even if all you did was reinvest that energy and time into revenue generating activity in the business.

Right.

Even if.

And we were using the example of social.

But there's other stuff.

There's email, right.

Like I don't check my email.

I shouldn't say that.

I do check my email, but I basically only respond when my assistant tells me, hey, I need you to look at this one.

Okay.

So that's a small, small task, right, that, you know, I'm still addicted to email even though it's not my.

Right.

Because that's the way they're designed.

Yeah.

I still check it more than I need to, but I'm not the one responding to most the emails.

You know, like in, in the podcast stuff.

We put a pause on the podcast.

But at the time my job was record.

Yeah, that's it.

Right.

And then I'd hand it off and, and same thing for social.

So like I obviously if you, you know, see some of my social, there's videos of me talking a course I created that.

But then in terms of clipping it up and everything that's handed off.

Yeah.

Right.

So anyways, I think it costs less, especially today because we can like va work is so, so widespread and there's great people out there and, and it's, it's an underutilized tool.

So.

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I totally hear you especially on, like, the podcast production side.

I still produce my own show.

I. I have since, like, day Go, and every time I go and I get that quote for, like, the cost of podcast production.

And, like, for those of you listening, it's about four to five hundred bucks an episode.

It's not cheap.

And so if you ultimately are putting out multiple episodes, like, for me, I've always looked at it.

I'm like, ben, I can't.

Like, I can't.

Yeah, I can't justify that right now.

Well, you.

But maybe one day.

I'm with you on that stuff, too.

I think the podcast agencies are extreme for what they charge.

Crazy, right?

And to me, that's not worth it.

But I would argue, though, is that you could take a lot off your plate by not getting a podcast agency, by literally getting a virtual assistant that knows how to do some video editing.

This is all they need.

I mean, they know how to trim an audio, how to cut it.

So they've got some audio, they've got some video.

You could probably find someone that could do that for you for, I'm guessing, but maybe 500amonth.

A thousand a month.

Now, because I know what does go into a podcast, because originally I was doing my own when I first started mine, so I know the amount of time, but I was doing an episode a week, not two a week.

Right.

Yeah.

So.

So it's double.

But if you could free up that editing time and let's say it was even a thousand bucks a month, you might just ask yourself, what would I need to generate for me to feel good about that?

Well, to me.

A thousand dollars.

Yeah.

If I could just generate a thousand dollars to free up my time, then it would be worth it, because now you've saved X amount of dollars.

Our time.

Pardon me?

X amount of hours.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, the edit, the podcast has been one of those things that I've really struggled to let go.

Right.

Like, like, you and me both know, like, the podcast is just over and above for what.

What my life actually is.

Right.

Like, most of the stuff I'm doing is, like, active bd.

It's doing coaching like, you and the podcast is, like, my passion.

I like.

I love the podcast.

I love the podcast.

Right.

Like, it really is a passion project.

Like, me and you both know that, like, getting sponsors for a podcast is a challenge.

Making those negotiations.

And, like, we're super grateful.

We have amazing sponsors, and it's awesome.

But, like, it's not.

It's not millions of dollars.

At least not Yet.

Maybe one day.

Maybe one day it is, but it's not there yet.

Right.

And so it really is.

Podcast is a labor of love.

And me and you both know that, like, you, you're.

You're a top 1% podcast.

I'm not even top.

So, you know, the labor of love it takes to show up week over week over week, month over month, year over year to deliver a show.

You know, understand your podcasters out there, they do it because they love it.

They're not.

It's.

It's not making them typically millions of dollars.

Unless, you know, you're Joe Rogan, right?

Yeah, totally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

At that scale, definitely.

Right?

Yeah.

But it's good to think about, because that's a good point too.

Is like, not just for yourself, but let's say someone else is wanting a podcast and you can translate podcast or something else.

Right.

What else am I doing that I could maybe have someone else doing?

And then in your world, okay, there's not really much I might do in the podcast that's going to go cover that, per se.

Maybe there is.

Maybe there I can make some more sponsor calls, could do whatever, sure.

But certainly in your BD world, in your coaching world, let's say that was another four or five hours a week or however long that is.

Yeah, that can be.

I mean, man, half of that time dedicated to connecting with people, reaching out.

Half of that time would probably end up yielding, if you look at it, over the course of a month, two months, three months.

Geez.

I mean, the ROI compared to what you would earn in that prospecting time compared to, you know, using the time to edit.

Right.

And I promise you, you'll find someone that can edit just as good as you, I'm sure.

No, I know, I know you're right, dude.

But I still feel like.

It's so funny.

I still feel the, like, abrasion to what you're saying.

Right.

What is it, though?

Like, what is it?

What's what?

What's the reservation?

I don'.

If I have the right answer.

That, man.

I don't know.

I.

What if you tried?

If I gave that up, then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You really have to, like, you really?

Yeah.

I don't know.

And it's so funny because I know I'm not alone in this, and I know there's, like, entrepreneurs listening to this conversation right now.

They're like, I get it.

I totally get it.

There's things I don't want to give up either.

And I'm not even.

I'm not Even sure if it's irrational.

I'm not even sure if it makes any sense that I still want to, like, hold this tight to my chest.

But there's like.

Like, there's things like the editing, man, I still just want to hold tight to my chest.

Do you love doing it?

I do.

I do enjoy the edit.

I do.

And.

And I learned, and I think I take pride in the edit.

You know what I mean?

Like, I think for me, it's something that, like, I started out and I don't know about you.

I don't know about you.

When you started your show, I had zero audio editing experience.

I have learned it all from just square nothing, right?

And I think, like, considering that I came into it with no knowledge whatsoever, I would say that I'm probably damn near an audio engineer at this point.

That's just from, like, just from experience, right?

Like, by the time you produce 256 shows, sure, you know what you're doing.

Right?

And it's.

It's something that I think I've gotten fairly good at, and it's.

Right.

Like, I have the way that I like to do it, and I think there's just a big part of me that's super reluctant to let it go, even though I.

You are completely right.

You are completely right for a time for, like, a use case for Kelly Kennedy's time.

Probably a shitty use case for my time.

Well, what would you do with an extra five hours in your a week right now?

What would you love to do with an extra five hours?

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Like, almost anything.

Probably, like, you know, at the end of the day, I.

Well, okay, hold on.

Maybe not.

Maybe that's a shitty answer.

I'm.

I'm gonna.

I'm gonna go back on this, and I'm gonna say, I think one of my challenges right now is I would probably find more work to do.

And I know that sounds really crappy.

Okay.

But for whatever reason, that does seem to be, like, where I'm at at this point of my entrepreneurial journey, where if I free up time, even though deep down I think I want the answer, I know.

I know Kelly Kennedy wants the answer to be, oh, I'm gonna go enjoy it.

I'm gonna go, like, I'm gonna go, like, ride my bike or I'm gonna go on a run, or I'm gonna go hang out with my kids, or I'm gonna go see a movie, whatever.

Right?

But, like, I think right now, and, you know, I've ended up on this, like, fallacy.

And I know I've had plenty of arguments with other entrepreneurs and conversations with them.

I'm like, they're like, do you feel like this?

And they're like, yeah, because when you free up more time, for me, the.

The default, and it's like, I don't know whether it's just like, my default right now or my default always now is like, okay, if I have five extra hours, how can.

How can I take the podcast to the next level?

How can I reinvest that in capital?

How can I coach more people and help more people?

Okay.

Like, I think that's where my mind ends up going.

So let's play that out.

That's fine.

If that's where it goes.

That's where it goes.

That's where you're at.

That.

Let's play it out.

Is editing going to take your podcast to the next level?

Maybe not.

Maybe not.

Well, assuming someone could do, you know, as good a job of you.

Yeah, sure.

Is you doing the editing.

If someone could do as good a job as you, is that going to bring the podcast to the next level?

You specifically being the one editing?

Yeah, okay.

Probably not.

No, probably not.

It's not.

If someone could do as good a job, or let's even call it close, to which there's people that can do as good a job.

There's people that could do just as good, if not better, if better.

Right?

Yeah.

So that's not going to bring it to the next level.

So that's fine.

So if we play it out that way.

Right.

If we play it out that way, then, okay, if I'm going to free up that time now, I could be using stuff that.

How could I take the podcast to the next level?

Right.

With that time, how could I get, you know, grow the coaching reach more people, serve at a higher level?

Well, now I've got time.

It's like that pareto principle, right?

20% of activities produce 80% of the results.

Probably a step further is eventually we'd like to get our business to what's the 5 and 95, where the 5% of things that only I can do and I can outsource the other 95, and I'm not quite there yet.

Yeah.

You know, I. I really do think.

I don't think that this is easy for anybody, Ben.

You know, I mean, like, the reality is, like, you're an expert in this field, and even you struggle with it.

And it's funny because, like, I look at that sometimes I Have I coach people in business development and they'll say, oh, Kelly, you know, like, I really struggle to make the calls.

Like, the calls are really, really hard.

And me sitting down and doing the time to do that, and I just kind of look at them and I say, me too.

Like, me too.

Like, you're not alone.

And so I think it's really cool that you're like, hey, I'm not really.

I still struggle with this too, because I've been doing business development at this point, making calls for 15 plus years, and I still have days where I'm like, for goodness sakes, do I have to make the calls today?

But.

But, you know, I don't spend too much time there.

I try to just move to the action and get it done.

And usually once I get started, it's no big deal.

Right.

But there is that resistance.

Right.

It's that resistance that I'm feeling in this, like, with, like, I want to produce my show.

It's that same stupid resistance.

Yeah.

That you almost have to just be like, hey, yeah, that's cool, but we're still gonna do this other thing anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But mindset, man, like, you know, you're.

This is your world.

Mindset is your world.

How do we get to a point where we can bypass that resistance?

Because we're all feeling the resistance.

For some, it might be cold calls.

For me, it might be producing my show, you know, for you, who knows?

But we're.

We all have that point of resistance.

What is it that makes me pick up my phone and start making the calls, even though I don't feel like it?

You know, what is it that it.

I. I don't even know if I can put the two and two together in my head.

I just know I have to do it, so I do.

Yeah, well, mindset's a broad term.

Right.

You know, obviously.

And mindset could be taken many ways.

The way that we think, people say, I got a positive mindset, this guy's got a negative mindset.

They might think, you know, I've got a.

He's got a business mindset.

That person's got an employee mindset.

So often when we're talking mindset, we're talking about the way that we think.

And the way that we think is dramatically influences the outcomes in our life.

Yeah, right, Dramatically.

But.

But there's more to it than just the way that we think.

So when we think of resistance, I'm resisting doing this thing.

That would probably be beneficial for me.

Right.

Beneficial for the business.

Beneficial for me, beneficial for my health benefit, whatever it might be, right?

I've got that resistance.

Resistance shows up in two ways, usually tied together.

There's a thinking component to resistance.

You know, I should do that.

But.

But often the bigger sticking point is the emotional resistance that's showing up.

And the emotion shows up.

And you know, especially as, like, we're both guys.

So a lot of males, like, well, no, not me.

Like, I don't have fear.

You know, bull.

I mean, everybody does and it shows up.

But that's often if we think about, you know, call reluctance as an example in a sales type business, which everybody struggles with, at least for a period, if not maybe their whole career, right?

Where we're.

Hes make those calls, we don't want to make them.

Once we start doing it, we get going.

But there's an emotional block to it.

There's a fear.

And the unspoken fear, of course is like, what if they don't like me?

What if it all goes back to a fear of rejection?

Which is both genetically programmed.

Certainly for a lot of, you know, a lot of generations in us environmentally program, you know, as we start growing up, we're programmed to really seek approval everywhere.

Even today, social media is all about approval.

It's like, you know, it's, it's a validation form, right?

It can be used for other things.

But so most of our society, even today, the programming that is constantly being influenced to us is, you know, make sure you care about what other people think.

Right?

They're not going to use that sentence, but you should be worried about what other people think.

It's a massive, massive thing that we grew up with and we're still experiencing today.

So of course in call reluctance, it's obvious where that shows up.

But that is an emotional block and a thinking.

So it's like this thinking and feeling loop.

Loop.

So how do we break free from it?

Is the question, how do we start to shift some of these areas where I may be experiencing resistance, it might not be making the calls, right?

Might be experiencing resistance and getting to the gym.

Might be experiencing resistance in, you know.

Well, we just talked about the podcast, like giving up, you know, giving up that, that task in my business and, and handing it off to somebody else.

Maybe I'm resisting that.

There's reluctance there.

So there's a, there's a thought process or a belief behind it.

It.

But then often, if not all the time, there's an emotional component to it, an inner block that way.

So what I'm fascinated by is Learning how to achieve more emotional mastery.

I'm fascinated by it.

Because if you actually look at what gets us to do the things that we want to do, why do we sometimes not do the things that we know we want to do and would be good for us?

Why do we do the things sometimes that we know are not great for us and we don't want to do, but yet we do them?

This is where we're driven by these emotions, these underlying stored emotions.

So emotional mastery to me is not the emotion comes up and I squash it.

That is not emotional mastery.

Right.

That's just suppressing it further for it to only come up later.

But emotional mastery is really about.

It's almost like an alchemist, in a way, is how do I turn that emotion into something more empowering?

You with me?

Yeah.

So the best simple path.

I'll give a real simple answer.

I got an entire method that we use to help people break through this.

But there's a real simple answer, really.

When we're stuck, when we're blocked, let's use call reluctance.

Right.

They're in sales, they're in business development, or they own the business.

They got to make the calls, they got to get the prospects.

Let's just face it.

Fear comes up for a lot of people, if not all of us.

Yeah.

Most of us, what we try and do is we try and talk ourselves out of it.

Right.

It's going to be okay.

You know, what if it goes good?

And maybe we even got a list of affirmations we're using and we're trying to, like, you know, and that used to be my old style.

Right.

Was just like, think my way out of it.

But it's.

It's hard to think yourself out of negative emotional state.

It's not impossible, but it's hard to think yourself out of it.

Sure.

Sometimes we practice it enough that we can just summon the courage.

Right.

So the fear comes up.

But I've trained myself that I'll act in spite of fear anyways.

That's a good place to be.

Yeah.

I was gonna say, I think that's probably the answer to when I make my calls.

Right.

It's like I know that it's not gonna kill me.

It's like, I've done it enough times that I know the outcome's probably gonna be good.

Yeah.

So I just skip past it.

But that doesn't mean that I'm not afraid in the moment.

That doesn't mean that I didn't get.

Didn't have a moment.

Right.

I couldn't agree more.

So, like, real tactical, we're in that situation.

Just click dial, boom.

You know, I mean, the longer the brain can think about it, the worse.

The higher the cliff jump is, right?

You're gonna make it.

Yeah, yeah.

But the other thing, too, is we can learn how to release emotions.

And one of the easiest ways, too, is just to acknowledge it comes up.

So, you know, we often will try and run away from these negative emotions.

We'll pretend they're not there.

We're trying to change them, everything.

Let's say the fear comes up, and this is a small example, making calls.

So you've got your prospect list.

You want to go make your calls.

You're feeling, you know, I don't know.

And maybe you're getting a little stuck where you're not making the calls like the people you're coaching.

Right.

Where I'm just having a hard time making the calls.

Totally is.

Just in the moment when it comes up is just to acknowledge that the fear is there because we try and run from it so much, but say, oh, interesting.

I can tell there's a fear there.

Not I am fearful.

Not I'm afraid to make the calls, but I can tell there's a fear there.

Sometimes that alone just to pause, bring awareness to it, it separates you from the fear.

It's no longer I am fearful, but instead there's a fear present.

I was doing a group coaching call today, and I used an analogy that if we'll just do it with you, let's say when fear comes up for some stage in your business, you got like, you know, it's a big prospecting caller or whatever, but it comes up for something.

Do you know where you feel that in your body?

Like, yeah, I tend to.

I tend to feel it in my chest.

You feel it in your chest.

Okay.

Like a tightening, probably kind of closing, almost.

Yeah, you bet.

Yeah.

Yeah, me too.

So.

So you know where you feel it.

So in the moment, rather than try and change it, I mean, we could just hit dial.

That's fine too, Right?

But you could also just pause.

We're talking, like 30 seconds.

We're not talking a long time.

Pause.

Close my eyes.

Notice.

Okay.

Hey, I can notice there's fear coming.

Where am I feeling it?

And then I'll notice it right in the chest.

Yeah.

And I'll say, oh, interesting.

There's fear in the chest.

And the analogy I give is, like, the fear in the chest is not you.

You can notice the fear is there in the act of noticing I don't have to be the fear.

It's just like, if my arm got cut.

Right.

The arm's cut right here on the forearm.

The arm's cut.

But that doesn't mean that I am cut, if that kind of makes sense.

I'm not sure if that fully makes sense when the fear comes up and I.

It's like if we don't learn to separate the fear from us, then we become the fear.

And when you're in that fearful state, you're probably not doing your best work.

No, it's super overwhelming.

Right.

But.

But there is a way to separate from it, and the easiest way is to notice it.

Yeah.

And just notice it's there.

And then if you just accept it.

Yeah.

There's some fear there.

Right.

Have you ever had a time in your life where something.

There was like, you know, a major problem going on, and finally you got to a place where you just accepted that.

That.

That is what that is.

Yeah.

You know what, dude?

I. I think about this, and I look back to, you know, the best advice my dad ever gave me.

And when I was a young guy, one of my close friends passed away, and I went through, you know, a pretty rough time.

I didn't want to get out of bed.

I didn't want to do anything.

I was.

I was just having a hard time.

And I remember my dad came into my room, and he looks at me and he says, you know, you got to just get up and live life normally.

Do the things you would have done.

He's like, I get it.

Right now.

You're gonna have to force yourself through it right now.

It's gonna be hard for you just to put on a pair of socks.

But every day that you get up and you put on a pair of socks gets a little easier and a little easier and a little easier.

And I'll be honest, that was the best piece of advice my dad ever gave me.

Because I have.

I have dealt with so much challenge in my life, so many things that I didn't want to get out of bed for.

But what I recognized was every day I do get out of bed and I do that thing, even if the first few times, it feels really like.

Like I have to force myself to do it, every day gets a little easier.

And so just giving it time, giving yourself that time to.

To get back to normal, it really does work.

And it works with everything.

Like, not just your own.

Your own mood.

Yeah.

Giving the time and just accepting.

I mean, that's an intense scenario.

We're Talking about there.

Yeah.

In terms of our day to day business, it's.

It's okay that there's fear there, right?

Like it's okay.

It's normal anytime, you know we're doing something that there's a possible risk and the possible risk is they could reject us.

In this example.

Yeah, yeah.

There's some fear and that's okay.

Dial anyways, right?

That you can feel the fear and do it anyways.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

No, you can.

You absolutely can, man.

No, Ben, this has been absolutely amazing.

You know, one of the things I want to chat about is obviously we're talking mindset and performance, but you are a, you're a high level mindset and performance coach, man.

Talk to us a little bit about.

About who what?

Like who are your top clients?

Who are your ideal clients?

Who do you work with?

So for me, I almost predominantly work with entrepreneurs.

I have a couple executive clients, but almost all entrepreneurs.

And you know, usually we're talking kind of businesses where, you know, they're probably doing somewhere around.

It varies but you know, they're probably.

Their business is probably like a million in sales upwards.

Probably probably a million to five somewhere around there.

Right.

Like honestly the kind of stuff we're talking about works for anybody.

So it doesn't matter.

Sure.

What I find though is that a lot of the people that come to me today and I'm working with, they're already successful and they're struggling with enjoying that success.

Kind of what we talked about earlier, right.

They're reaching a point in their life.

I had a call guy with the other day, great business guy and you know, he's successful, he's done really well and he ends up.

I've never met him before, he was referred to me, but he ends up, I said, so what's going on for you, man?

Like, what are you really wanting right now?

He ends up breaking down in tears.

Now this doesn't happen all the time, but he breaks down tears like, I'm so sorry.

And I was like, it's okay, bro, no worries.

And.

But he just shared with me some of the things going on.

So to answer your question, for me, like high performance coaching is not just about how do we go and make more money and become more productive.

We're going to do that.

But I want to help people get back that sense of aliveness.

I like helping people get back to where there's that joy for living, that zest, that passion for life and it's possible and we can live there and it doesn't need to be 10 years from now or 20 years from now, and you don't need the big goal that you've got set in order to live it.

It.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that was probably a broad answer.

But that's my thing, like, that's my jam is I like working with people that are.

We've done well, they're doing well, and they're continuing to.

And we're going to continue to help them do that, do it even better.

But I want to bring back that zest, get that aliveness, get the joy.

Well, I, I already know that about you, but I think there's a lot of people who don't know, you know, what it is you do and, and like, why it's important.

And I think it's like, I think, I think, you know, if we're talking to young entrepreneurs right now, like ones that are just getting into it, just starting their own company in their mind, I can almost guarantee you they think, when I achieve a million dollars a year, I'm going to be happy.

That's the moment it'll all be fine.

Yeah.

But the funny thing is, and the thing that you see over and over and over again is people make a million, 5 million, 400 million.

It doesn't make them happy.

Yeah, well, it never can.

It's like, I remember when I started, mine was 100,000 a year.

No, my family never made a hundred thousand a year.

And so that wasn't like business sales, but I wanted my income to be a hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah.

And then I got there and it is exciting for like a day.

Yeah, yeah.

But the reason why, though is.

And sometimes we just have to experience it.

Right.

Like, you know, so there's a coach that I followed for a while and his whole thing, he's like, you know, and his was a million dollars.

That's what he talked about.

It's like, I know you want the million dollar, your income, I know you want it.

He's like, I'm just telling you right now, it's not going to give you what you think it's going to give you, but go and get the million so you can figure it out for yourself.

You got to learn it the right way.

Right.

So sometimes we got to do that.

Right.

It's just, go figure it out experientially.

But, but the challenge is, is that that idea of happiness.

Happiness is an inside job.

Right.

It's figuring out.

And that's, that's why I'm so passionate about this kind of work, is that I want to help people live that life today while we're building greater wealth, while we're building greater businesses.

Because it is an illusion that we fall prey to and get trapped in, thinking that once I have X, whether it's the million dollars, whether it's the revenue, whether it's the dream home, whether it's the vacation, you know, it's retiring your parents, it's paying that debt off, it's whatever.

Putting the kids through college, the illusion is, is that there.

There is no external achievement that's going to give you lasting happiness.

Yeah.

And, you know, like, let's.

Let's keep that analogy of the young entrepreneur that we're talking to right now, Ben.

You know, you've been through it.

You.

You busted your ass and you ran into a wall, and, you know, you.

You crashed and burned and had to pull yourself out of it, and you learned this the hard way, just like the rest of us.

You know, at a certain level, you learned this the hard way.

What's the best piece of advice that you can give to a young entrepreneur?

Maybe it's their first year in business and they are striving for that million dollars because right now, that's.

That still feels fresh and hot.

Yeah.

And it's motivating them.

It's a great goal, too.

Right.

Like, I'm not against that.

I think it's an awesome goal.

Yeah.

And an awesome thing.

You know, getting the million is an awesome thing.

Right.

Do it.

Right?

Do it.

What's the best piece of advice?

I think at that stage, it's hard to nail it down to one, but at that stage, you're probably still.

I guess just to put it bluntly, you're probably still not that good at what you do yet at that stage.

So someone entering business, they've been in business for a year, whatever it might be, and this may seem counter to everything we talked about up to this point, but it's not.

Is, I would say, become really freaking good at what you do.

Just become a master of your craft, whatever that is.

Right.

Because that's ultimately like, you can write your ticket in a lot of ways when we get great at what we do, as you know.

Right.

When we get great at what we do.

Opportunities everywhere.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

So, you know, you might be surprised.

You might think, hey, man, go take off this amount of time or go do this.

No, honestly, at that stage, I'd say I get really freaking great at it.

It's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I actually like that because you're Right.

Once you are great at what you do, there's always work for you somewhere.

Yeah, always.

I love it.

Yeah, I love it.

You know, Ben, obviously, you know, you mentioned that your podcast is not live at the moment, but you have a top 1% podcast.

I. I imagine it's not dead forever.

I have.

I know you.

I think you'll.

I think there's something new coming from Ben Spangle.

But we just.

Can we just introduce the Pursuit to the listeners?

Because it's still very much available.

Yeah, it's a great show.

I think there's.

I wonder.

111 episodes.

It's a great show for sure.

And it's not dead by any means.

I'm just not actively releasing episodes in it.

But the Pursuit was.

Is all about that.

It's the pursuit of our best life.

Right.

How do we go?

And I would consider it, like, to me, I like the idea of holistic success.

How do we build a great business?

How do we build a great body and health and vitality, have a great marriage, be great parents?

So the Pursuit is sometimes it's me teaching, but often it's guests.

And honestly, a lot of different areas.

Right.

So we might have, you know, there's people that.

There's lots of different health episodes.

I love biohacking.

That's one of my side passions.

I don't talk too much about, but that's something I love.

Like, how do we get the best out of our body?

What are these little things we can do?

And different hacks.

And so there's stuff like that, obviously.

There's a lot of mindset stuff in there.

There was a period of my life where I was heavy into, like, the manifestation space.

Yeah.

And so that.

That show has, you know, certainly elements of that, too, and.

Yeah.

And then some business stuff.

Not as much business on that one, but yeah.

Awesome, awesome.

And that's still available, obviously, anywhere that people find podcasts.

Yeah.

The Pursuit.

Yeah.

Ben Spangle.

Yeah, you got it.

Perfect.

Perfect.

And, you know, like, I follow you on LinkedIn, so I always know typically, what's going on with what's going on in your life.

But, you know, you put a lot of great information out there.

You're always giving motivational videos.

I have you on Facebook, too.

What's the best way for people to follow kind of what's new from Ben Spangle?

Because you're always doing something new.

You always have like a speech or a seminar or something coming up.

You always have, you know, coaching available.

You got all sorts of services.

Is what's the best way for people to kind of keep up with you and to start to engage in the Ben Spangle universe.

Yeah, sure.

So I. I would say a few things.

So one is like, if they want to connect.

I mean, just if.

If you want to connect, an email's great.

So Ben B, E, N at Ben Spangle.

And Spangle does not have an E, S, P, A, N, G, L. Right.

It'll be right.

It'll be right in the show notes.

Be able to find it easy.

Good.

So if you want to connect like that, send me an email.

Ben spangle.com Instagram's great.

Great Ben Spangle.

Facebook's great.

Ben Spangle.

I know LinkedIn.

That's your.

A lot of your platform.

Truth is, I have one.

I don't use it that often, so that's not a great place.

I may not see you for a while if they message me there.

But Instagram, Facebook, or just send me a direct email and be happy to chat.

Perfect.

Dude.

No, it's been.

It's been an honor.

I always appreciate these conversations.

I appreciate you immensely as a person.

You know, you've been in, you know, to the listeners.

Like, I've done a coaching session with Ben.

Ben was kind of enough to do one for me.

And honestly, dude, you're.

You're.

You're incredible.

Thank you.

I'm just gonna say it.

You're incredible.

Thanks.

What you're talking about is real.

And I appreciate both you as a person and as a friend.

Thank you, brother.

It's great to be back here.

It's great spending time with you and definitely an honor.

I have to tell you, one of the things you're great at is you're great at making the guests feel special.

Right?

And you do a good.

And I know it's just your personality.

It's who you are.

It's not fake.

It's.

It's very genuine.

It's who you are.

You.

From a podcast perspective, I stepped away from mine, as you know.

But this is for all the listeners.

Like, what Kelly's doing is amazing, and what he's done with the show is amazing, and he.

At times, I think you downplayed a little bit.

Like, what you have done is freaking incredible, how fast you guys have grown.

It's truly amazing.

I know it's a passion project, but you'll be one of the guys that's got, like, where that show is, man.

The Kelly Kennedy Show.

I can't believe it.

Maybe one day I could get to the Kelly K Show.

So I say this with whole sincerity.

There probably is going to come a time that I do a new podcast in my life.

I don't feel called to do that right now, but you are my inspiration for how I'm going to do it the next time around.

So I love what you've done.

Yeah, you're amazing.

You make me feel special.

Oh, goodness.

No.

Thank you.

Thank you for all you do.

And I look forward very much to our next conversation.

Me too, brother.

See you soon.

Until next time, this has been episode 256 of the Business Development Podcast.

We will catch you on the flip side.

This has been the Business Development Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business development.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.

see you next time on the Business Development Podcast.